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No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

theatlantic.com

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Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#251

Post by cookiecaper »

cheald wrote: post #213
marcell wrote: post #62

Quoting the article: > "Sarah, put on the green coat or the red sweater. We're going to go out, okay?" Choice among humans increases the likelihood of compliance. And choice isn't important, it's the appearance of choice that's important. I've gotten this exact advice from so many articles and pop psych pieces. Maybe they are written by non-parents or their children are much easier, but it never works for me. My 4 ye…

> For me personally, having kids has resolved the nature vs nurture debate squarely in the "nature" side. Amen to that. I have 3 boys. We put in the same ingredients and got wildly different results with all three. I'm convinced that parenting is more about working with what comes factory installed than it is about moulding some ideal human from a formless block of potential. Incentives and punishments that work with…

I have 5 kids and I can also attest to this. Each one is different. In our case, the children are in two personality groups: the 1st and 3rd child have a similar personality type, and the 2nd and 4th have a similar personality type that vastly differs from the first type (the 5th is too young to really be expressive right now). Each child is unique in their own way, and they all respond to different risk-reward profiles.

Before I had kids, my grandmother, who had 11, tried to tell me that you just couldn't do much about your kids's personalities. I was naive and didn't believe her until I had 2 and saw the difference first hand.

I am NOT trying to downplay the importance of nurture, but parents have a larger challenge than many non-parents or single-parents expect. It's not just about formulating a good environment (in fact, formulating an environment that is too easy is probably a substantial developmental detriment). Your kids come out the way they are, and you have to really understand their personalities and challenges and then teach them ways to cope with the world while accepting that you can't change their core internal traits. It's an intellectually and emotionally intense labor of love that lasts for decades, and it shapes both parent and child.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#253

Post by JamesSwift »

JamesHurburgh wrote: post #99

I couldn't read more than a paragraph of this article it's so ridiculous. The idea that positive reinforcement is a radical idea? Ridiculous. The idea that you can ignore destructive behaviour until it goes away? Ridiculous. It's about addressing the situation. As a parent the best thing is when I get to positively reinforce my child's behaviour, because it means I've seen them do something wonderful. (Helping a sibl…

You captured my thoughts on this as well. Positive reinforcement is great and all, but there needs to be an options for a "stick" rather than always a "carrot". Your example is good, but also when they are acting out in public especially if it affects others around them.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#254

Post by nhebb »

maxxxxx wrote: post #113
marcell wrote: post #62

Quoting the article: > "Sarah, put on the green coat or the red sweater. We're going to go out, okay?" Choice among humans increases the likelihood of compliance. And choice isn't important, it's the appearance of choice that's important. I've gotten this exact advice from so many articles and pop psych pieces. Maybe they are written by non-parents or their children are much easier, but it never works for me. My 4 ye…

That's the problem with one-size-fits-all methods. Kids are just different and what worked for one child doesn't necessarily work for another child. Even if you do exactly the same thing. My girlfriend used to train dogs for a living. She always said "it's the owner's fault, not the dog's". Now we have a Chihuahua who won't listen, doesn't respond to rewards, doesn't respond to punishment. She just does her own thing…

Yeah, after having three kids with widely different temperaments, I can only offer two pieces of advice to other dads:

- You're going to have to change diapers anyway, so you might as well get good at it. I was a one-man Formula 1 pit crew of diaper changing. AMA.

- Invest in a vasectomy.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#255

Post by sumedh »

emp_zealoth wrote: post #250
pvg wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Here [at the Yale Parenting Center], we deal with two kinds of children. One is that they are very aggressive and have serious psychiatric problems. And the other one is that they come in for normal kinds of issues that parents just want some help on." I don't think these people are just dispensing pop psych advice in magazines or once a week. It's a clinic.

I personally know a child who was a literal hellspawn for 10+ years and would not respond to any kind of newfangled therapy Then his dad got too mad over him literally failing school and leather belt fixed him within a year Which was not a single stop solution either

> leather belt fixed him within a year

Lot of Indian parents (including mine) follow this approach.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#256

Post by mabcat »

calinet6 wrote: post #27
Dagwoodie wrote: post #9

This article is dangerous. On the surface it may sound good, but there is behavior so vile and harmful to the child, family or neighbors that never showing negative reinforcement is extremely dangerous with some children. It does have some merits though, showing plenty of positive reinforcement will likely reduce the amount of negative reinforcement needed.

You don't want never negative, or never stern to put a lighter touch on it—but many people, probably the audience of this article at large, simply don't know enough behavior theory to even know of the alternative. Save the negative reinforcement and punishment for situations where it's absolutely clear and necessary—that's the best way to keep it an effective tool anyway. Maybe 60% positive, and 10% negative, with th…

Note that negative reinforcement is reinforcement. It reinforces (i.e. encourages) a behaviour by stopping something unpleasant. e.g. your kid asks you nicely to turn off that dad music, you flip the stereo off, your kid feels better and learns to ask nicely. e.g.2. your kid screams that he hates carrots, you take the carrots off the plate, your kid feels better and learns to scream. When you say negative reinforcement you mean punishment.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#258

Post by yummybear »

marcell wrote: post #62

Quoting the article: > "Sarah, put on the green coat or the red sweater. We're going to go out, okay?" Choice among humans increases the likelihood of compliance. And choice isn't important, it's the appearance of choice that's important. I've gotten this exact advice from so many articles and pop psych pieces. Maybe they are written by non-parents or their children are much easier, but it never works for me. My 4 ye…

My personal experience from two young children is that it works, most of the time. Obviously there are still issues - maybe the young one wants to bring some toy to school on a non-toy day - in this case getting to choose the color of sweater isn't going to help.

But mostly this approach seems to work. Now we as parents still need to remember to use this approach, which we unfortunately often forget in the morning rush.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#259

Post by flukus »

sumedh wrote: post #255
emp_zealoth wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally know a child who was a literal hellspawn for 10+ years and would not respond to any kind of newfangled therapy Then his dad got too mad over him literally failing school and leather belt fixed him within a year Which was not a single stop solution either

> leather belt fixed him within a year Lot of Indian parents (including mine) follow this approach.

It was very common everywhere until about 10-20 years ago.

My mum even keeps her collection of broken wooden spoons.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#260

Post by geon »

jessriedel wrote: post #57
bmy78 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "tricking", unless you're letting your toddler dictate whether you should leave the house. Toddlers don't have a choice over that; instead, you're giving the toddler a choice appropriate to their level. That helps build their cognitive abilities and takes the focus away from whether they want to leave the house (a choice they shouldn't make), to whether they want the sweater or coat (a choice reasonable for…

You're using a cognitive advantage to distract them from expressing displeasure about something they reasonably don't like. Just because the toddler doesn't have a say over whether you're leaving the house doesn't mean you're not tricking him. If two people are dating, the boyfriend is well within his rights to unilaterally break off the relationship. But if he broached the issue with his girlfriend by saying "Would…

You are comparing a 4 yo to an 18(?) yo.

Should a 4 yo be allowed to live alone? Drive a car? Date?

It is about choice and responsibillity on a suitable level for the maturity of the child.

And a parent-child relationship is very different from an adult-adult relationship either way.

Your commen makes absolutely no sense.

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