Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 446 posts

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#151

Post by jackmott »

tw04 wrote: post #122
maxxxxx wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the problem with one-size-fits-all methods. Kids are just different and what worked for one child doesn't necessarily work for another child. Even if you do exactly the same thing. My girlfriend used to train dogs for a living. She always said "it's the owner's fault, not the dog's". Now we have a Chihuahua who won't listen, doesn't respond to rewards, doesn't respond to punishment. She just does her own thing…

I'm not sure why that would humble her. If she trained dogs, then she already knew 99% of the dogs out there with behavioral issues are a direct result of the owner. There are VERY rare circumstances where it's just a genetic defect (for lack of better term) in the dog, and it just has insurmountable issues. After fostering/owning roughly 75 dogs in my life, I can say 9 times out of 10 that consistency and discipline…

9 out of 10 or 99 out of 100?

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#152

Post by marknutter »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #123
junto wrote: post #18

> Tone of voice dictates whether you're going to get compliance or not. "Sarah, put on the green coat or the red sweater. We're going to go out, okay?" Choice among humans increases the likelihood of compliance. And choice isn't important, it's the appearance of choice that's important. Having real choice is not the issue, humans don't feel too strongly about that, but having the feeling that you have a choice makes…

This technique worked for us a bit in the toddler years, but it became ineffective for both kids around 4 or 5. They clue in quite quickly and start pushing for ... other options.

The important thing is to give them a choice but be firm on the original requirement. Teach them that some things in life must be done (like brushing one's teeth) but they still allow for some level of autonomy, which I think is an important lesson to learn. They're going to encounter this again in life and if they are able to cope by focusing on the choices between the smaller details of a larger, more difficult or unnapealing task, that's a win in my book.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#153

Post by dang »

cwp wrote: post #111
dang wrote: post #55

(Edit: I'm detaching this from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13101402 and marking it off-topic. That example wasn't a clear enough one to make the point about, because the commenter wasn't being snarky or doing anything particularly wrong. Maybe next time it comes up more clearly I'll try again.) I know it's nitpicky, but please don't use quotation marks when you're not actually quoting someone, and especially…

But... quote marks are grammatically correct. They're the only way to mention words and phrases you're not actually using them. Yes, the things we write are subject to misinterpretation, particularly when stripped of the their context. But asking people to avoid correct use of punctuation isn't going to make that less likely. Quite the opposite, in fact.

It looks like what I posted might not have been clear. I mean: please don't use quotation marks to make it look like you're quoting someone when you're not really quoting them. In particular, please don't do that thing where people sarcastically put words in someone's mouth and then add quotation marks around those words to amplify the rhetorical effect.

Uses of quotation marks for quoting someone, or for doing something that doesn't look like quoting someone (e.g. "self-referentially") are fine.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#154

Post by Klinky »

jessriedel wrote: post #100
yarou wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The assumption implicit in your argument is that the relationship is equal (as in the case of a boyfriend/girlfriend). I'm not sure that same assumption holds for a parent and a child, as much as the media tells you otherwise.

The point of the example was merely to rebut the idea that a parent's prerogative to choose destination doesn't mean there's no transgression. Finding some way that it differs from the parent-child relationship isn't relevant unless you explain why the asymmetry would imply there was no transgression.

Children learn their own forms of manipulative behavior at an early age(e.g. cry to get attention or what you want), but with less logical understanding of their own wants/needs. Put children on the same level, and hold the child to the same moral standard you're trying to hold parents to and they fail completely at it. It's not a matter of the parent manipulating the innocent child, but rather the parent diverting around the child's own manipulative behaviors. Perhaps no one should be manipulative ever, but go ahead and try explaining that to someone with the cognitive and emotional maturity of a 4 year old.

In an adult-adult relationship, the two parties should be equals, with similar cognitive and emotional maturity. They should treat each other as such. This isn't always the case. Even loving seemingly healthy relationships may involve some form of manipulative behavior on both sides.

Transgressions occur all the time, in all relationships, you have you to use judgement to figure out which ones get a pass, and which ones don't.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#155

Post by 3131s »

junto wrote: post #18

> Tone of voice dictates whether you're going to get compliance or not. "Sarah, put on the green coat or the red sweater. We're going to go out, okay?" Choice among humans increases the likelihood of compliance. And choice isn't important, it's the appearance of choice that's important. Having real choice is not the issue, humans don't feel too strongly about that, but having the feeling that you have a choice makes…

I don't mean this in a snarky way, but have you ever just left it up to him? How old is your son? I understand your thinking if his skin condition is very serious, but if it's just a matter of him being uncomfortable because he forgot, then that's the type of thing I would be totally hands-off about.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#156

Post by kawsper »

lfowles wrote: post #61
theli0nheart wrote: post #38

> Punishment might make you feel better, but it won’t change the kid’s behavior. Instead, he advocates for a radical technique in which parents positively reinforce the behavior they do want to see until the negative behavior eventually goes away. We adopted a puppy a little more than a year ago and this was the exact advice we were given for how to train her. Puppies and little kids are remarkably similar, and the k…

The trouble with a puppy is that it's hard to know whether or not "chasing them to get $VALUABLE_ITEM out of their mouth" is a reward or not :)

I am pretty sure a behaviourist in most cases would say that it is a punishment, and they would encourage you to try and switch $VALUABLE_ITEM for a "higher value object", which might be their favourite toy, a toy that squeaks or maybe even food if they are very foodie.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#157

Post by jcrawfordor »

dang wrote: post #55

(Edit: I'm detaching this from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13101402 and marking it off-topic. That example wasn't a clear enough one to make the point about, because the commenter wasn't being snarky or doing anything particularly wrong. Maybe next time it comes up more clearly I'll try again.) I know it's nitpicky, but please don't use quotation marks when you're not actually quoting someone, and especially…

If this fairly nonstandard usage rule is significant enough to reply to someone to correct them on it, shouldn't it be listed in the guidelines?

The parent's usage is very common, so it seems a bit harsh for a mod to call them out on it, even if fairly politely, when they are not clearly in violation of anything they have been told.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#158

Post by maxxxxx »

tw04 wrote: post #122
maxxxxx wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the problem with one-size-fits-all methods. Kids are just different and what worked for one child doesn't necessarily work for another child. Even if you do exactly the same thing. My girlfriend used to train dogs for a living. She always said "it's the owner's fault, not the dog's". Now we have a Chihuahua who won't listen, doesn't respond to rewards, doesn't respond to punishment. She just does her own thing…

I'm not sure why that would humble her. If she trained dogs, then she already knew 99% of the dogs out there with behavioral issues are a direct result of the owner. There are VERY rare circumstances where it's just a genetic defect (for lack of better term) in the dog, and it just has insurmountable issues. After fostering/owning roughly 75 dogs in my life, I can say 9 times out of 10 that consistency and discipline…

It humbled her because in the past she would have blamed the dog's behavior on the owner and she would have known exactly how to fix it. Now she has a dog that doesn't respond to her methods.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#159

Post by hourislate »

coldtea wrote: post #97
andrewfromx wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sure, musk has 5 kids! how much time does he get with them vs. work I wonder.

When you have that kind of money you have 10 babysitters, nannies, assistants, cooks, cleaners, drivers etc. And you can get a day off almost whenever you want too.

Kids don't want babysitters, nannies, daycares,money, toys, rewards. They just want time with their parents. The more time you can spend with your child, the better. Hard to do in this day and age.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#160

Post by 3131s »

I live in a very poor Asian country where most every parent has never given a single thought to behavior theory or been exposed to the whole parenting industry. It's mostly just feed your kid, let them run around unsupervised with other kids outside, and have the oldest child handle certain responsibilities like getting everybody to school on time. Having worked with kids back in the US and here, the contrast in behavioral problems and social anxiety is so markedly different that it's definitely shaped the way I'll parent my own children. The kids here are much less needy and so much more confident and independent, whereas I can barely spend two minutes around a western kid without getting royally annoyed. My own parents were very hands-off and I plan to be even more so.
Post reply on HN