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Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#91

Post by Herodotus38 »

WorldMaker wrote: post #80
amelius wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be the case. But in order to find out, the best way would be to correlate both conditions with medical reports of a large number of patients. A platform like [1] could help in sorting this out. (Question: Does anybody know other/better platforms for this purpose? Does anybody have positive experience in doing this kind of research using such platform?) [1] http://patientslikeme.com

The best platforms for this sort of research in the US are internal proprietary toolkits of health insurance companies, auditing companies, and law firms. The profit motives of the US health care system don't currently incentivize putting these platforms to use for science, they are mostly used for (re-) billing. (Source: Worked for an auditing/law firm company deep on their platform once. Have friends still in healt…

I would like to read the paper your friend was involved in. Do you have a link?

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#92

Post by WorldMaker »

Herodotus38 wrote: post #91
WorldMaker wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best platforms for this sort of research in the US are internal proprietary toolkits of health insurance companies, auditing companies, and law firms. The profit motives of the US health care system don't currently incentivize putting these platforms to use for science, they are mostly used for (re-) billing. (Source: Worked for an auditing/law firm company deep on their platform once. Have friends still in healt…

I would like to read the paper your friend was involved in. Do you have a link?

Sorry, I don't know the details (this was essentially picked up in a party conversation) and I'm afraid to ask because I'm assuming it was work done under an NDA given the way the project had been described to me. I don't know exactly how proprietary things were and if it would be socially/legally appropriate to ask at this point because that was under that friend's previous employment. Once again, the binds of our for-profit health system incentivizing against public disclosures and (data) scientists getting public credit for their work.

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#93

Post by andy_ppp »

andy_ppp wrote: post #8

What do we know so far? - Gut Bacteria are involved - Inflammation is involved - The brain works on glucose - The brain can also work on Ketones - Cinnamon seems to help in mice trials (and also has anti-inflammatory properties). - Could diabetes be analogous to Parkinson's? Diabetics generally have lost the ability to process carbs (usually by eating too many); could Parkinsons be caused by people being very dopamin…

Sorry that we got sidelined with carbs and diabetes on this, it's pretty off topic. My fault for being inaccurate probably. Please watch this, especially if you have been downvoting me:

http://www.ted.com/talks/peter_attia_what_if_we_re_wrong_abo...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhzV-J1h0do

Also:

http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/the-great-medical-disconn...

Enjoy!

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#94

Post by Shivetya »

apinstein wrote: post #33

My Dad was recently diagnosed. Very early stage. This is very interesting news. My take is that Parkinson's is a little like cancer in that it likely has multiple root causes that can injure the same part of the brain (substantia niagra) and cause the disease. My research for his case led me to vitamin k2 deficiency as a possible cause / complicating factor. There are some genetic models and mouse trials that show k2…

my dad's brother has Parkinsons and it is very disheartening but I make sure to visit him and take him to lunch each time I visit relatives. He still has mobility but he also is losing his sight. The annoying part is just how frustrating to him it can be when he wants to move and his body gets "stuck". He has to tell him self to stop, stand, and then move. It works a bit, then repeats.

as for it being a bacteria, after my personal experience with bacteria problems I wouldn't be surprised. I was on Cipro for an unrelated infection and this stuff killed all the bacteria in my gut, or at least the good stuff. What moved in made my life miserable for months till they could id it and flush it out.

still I am curious if it is, can it be related to pets? they bring along bacteria we don't handle well. diet would be a little odd to me so I figure it has to be environmental

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#95

Post by spangry »

trendia wrote: post #41

This is especially interesting, since coffee is moderately protective for Parkinson's. Does that mean the coffee may be working at the gut level rather than its caffeine working in the brain? On second thought, coffee definitely works on the gut in normal people, if you know what I mean.

Interesting. Might the effect be due to coffee's acidity? When you drink coffee, the environment in your stomach becomes more acidic, which would (just speculating) make it more effective at destroying/metabolising any mal-folded amino-acid metabolites/proteins (i.e. prions, scary stuff).

Pharmacokinetics does not seem to be particularly well understood currently, but we do seem to be finding it's much more important than we thought. That, and whatever you call the 'study of metabolism' (metabolomics?)...

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#96

Post by laypersonjoe »

zdean wrote: post #78
laypersonjoe wrote: post #76

By country. Does gut bacteria have differentiation by region/country/diet and by extension can some diets be less causative? http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/parkinson-...

I'm not sure if it has differentiation, but lifestyle factors could have an impact. If, for example, in more developed countries there's a great emphasis on (especially) childhood cleanliness, it may be affecting the development of "good" bacteria: http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20151118-can-you-be-too-clea... Another lifestyle example could be the prevalence of C-section births in more developed countries: https://…

From the map I linked above, developed countries seem to have high rates. Parkinson's doesn't seem to discriminate there, so is there any other thing interesting by country? Spurious and sounds silly, but spicy foods, maybe?

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#97

Post by o_____________o »

bonesinger wrote: post #67
andy_ppp wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, so if I replace "process" with "utilise" we are good?

I guess, sorry if I am coming across as touchy. I'm a diabetic and there is a ton of misinformation out there about it!

It's nice to see amicable resolutions online.

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#98

Post by kgilpin »

WorldMaker wrote: post #80
amelius wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be the case. But in order to find out, the best way would be to correlate both conditions with medical reports of a large number of patients. A platform like [1] could help in sorting this out. (Question: Does anybody know other/better platforms for this purpose? Does anybody have positive experience in doing this kind of research using such platform?) [1] http://patientslikeme.com

The best platforms for this sort of research in the US are internal proprietary toolkits of health insurance companies, auditing companies, and law firms. The profit motives of the US health care system don't currently incentivize putting these platforms to use for science, they are mostly used for (re-) billing. (Source: Worked for an auditing/law firm company deep on their platform once. Have friends still in healt…

The US Department of Veterans Affairs has extensive longitudinal data on tens of thousands of Parkinson's patients. They do research as well as treatment.

http://www.parkinsons.va.gov/New_Front_Page.asp

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#99

Post by tcj_phx »

illumin8 wrote: post #77
tcj_phx wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He was pretty "normal" before the surgery but after it he couldn't walk and thought the hospital staff attacked him with dogs during the night. Apparently delirium is a common side effect of whatever they do in hospitals. I came across this link last month: "Delirium: A Surprising Side Effect of Hospital Stays -- Often misdiagnosed as dementia, it can cause hallucinations and delusions" - http://www.nextavenue.org/…

Out of curiosity, how does coconut oil help with "delirium"?

My thinking is that delirium is probably a symptom of impaired metabolism and/or malnourishment and/or insulin resistance. When a person's mitochondria can't make enough ATP to keep them going, sometimes they become delirious/psychotic [1].

Coconut oil is useful because of its high proportion of medium chain triglicerides. Longer fatty acids have to be transported with carnitine to be metabolized in the mitochondria.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium-chain_triglyceride#Medi... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid_metabolism#Fatty_ac...

The alcoholic brain tends to be insulin resistant, and uses acetate (a breakdown product of ethanol) as fuel, because glucose isn't available, or isn't can't be delivered to the mitochondria in sufficient quantity.

  [1]
  Thus, without careful assessment and history, delirium can easily be confused 
  with a number of psychiatric disorders or long term organic brain syndromes, 
  because many of the signs and symptoms of delirium are conditions also present 
  in dementia, depression, and psychosis.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium (IMHO, doctors distinguish between "delirium" and "psychosis" because they don't realize they have similar etiologies.)

Re: Parkinson’s disease ‘may start in gut’

#100

Post by NickM »

trendia wrote: post #40
dtf wrote: post #31

Last year, there was an interesting story about a woman who could smell a certain odour that seemed to be given off by people with Parkinson's (primarily her husband). http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34583642

If it's ketones, then it would be easy to train a dog to detect it.

I don't see any mention of ketones in the BBC article. What led you to that hypothesis?
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