Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 500 posts

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#91

Post by bastawhiz »

yladiz wrote: post #56
HappyTypist wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's to analyse where riders actually go after being dropped off; for example understanding that if you want to go to building XYZ you have to get off here. Collecting data for self driving cars probably.

Yeah, but why does Uber need/care about that information? If I ask to be dropped off at X and walk a couple blocks to Y, Uber shouldn't care. I can understand the argument that maybe going to certain buildings you have to be dropped off at a specific spot, but that seems like a minor gain for something that's more than just a minor intrusion.

(Uber engineer here)

The data is used for (or can be used for) a number of practical and important purposes. These are some examples of what we do as well as what we could do with such data:

- Fighting fraud

- Improving "suggested pickup" locations

- Improvements around POOL (we'd rather suggest a location that's easy to pick up from than one that's unsafe)

- Figuring out what side of the street you end up on (we can do a better job of choosing a route if we know you're able to get out of the car safely)

- Optimizing pickups and dropoffs around events or certain times of the day or week (Caltrain riders: imagine if we suggested pickups at 5th and Townsend instead of 4th and King during rush hour. Much easier to find your driver and prevents congestion)

- Dropping riders off closer to the "correct" entrance to their building

- Dropping riders off in a location that's easier for the driver to depart from without making the rider walk too far (e.g., instead of getting trapped in a weird road or parking lot)

- Analyze where riders ask drivers to make stops mid-trip and make better experiences around that.

As far as trust and safety goes, we can avoid charging you if your driver was looking for you at the wrong location and gave up. We can better see where you were actually dropped off at, if your driver lies and leaves the app running after you've left the car. Leave your phone in the driver's car, and we can potentially do more than just put you in touch with them.

Individual users' data is very closely guarded internally. It's immensely difficult to look at user data without specific access. Overwhelmingly, this data is queried in aggregate and fed into machine learning systems. The risk of abuse is exceptionally low.

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#92

Post by benliong78 »

amluto wrote: post #84
StavrosK wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can install Greenify to do exactly this. It helped me kill some pernicious apps that I needed once in a while but that would run all the time, killing my battery (I'm looking at you, Mi Fit). The only annoying and inexplicable thing is that some apps run their own background process for push notifications, rather than using GCM, so pushes stop coming in if you kill those.

I think it's ridiculous that you need an app to approximately control other background apps. Denying background access to the phone should be the default. Anything else should need a permission popup IMO.

iOS gets close to what you want. Apps have to ask for specific permission for specific reasons (location, background download, etc), otherwise it just get killed after a few minutes.

Security is always at odds with convenience. It's easy to require a pop up to ask for permission every time and have user getting so used to these pop ups that they just automatically tap "yes"

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#93

Post by AWildDHHAppears »

uabstraction wrote: post #77
synicalx wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I accept it because I don't really care if Uber knows where I am for a couple of minutes after they drop me off. Not everyone's cup of tea, but if you don't like it there's nothing stopping you from uninstalling the app.

This mindset is exactly what is destroying democracy around the world.

Oh come now.

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#94

Post by StavrosK »

amluto wrote: post #84
StavrosK wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can install Greenify to do exactly this. It helped me kill some pernicious apps that I needed once in a while but that would run all the time, killing my battery (I'm looking at you, Mi Fit). The only annoying and inexplicable thing is that some apps run their own background process for push notifications, rather than using GCM, so pushes stop coming in if you kill those.

I think it's ridiculous that you need an app to approximately control other background apps. Denying background access to the phone should be the default. Anything else should need a permission popup IMO.

I agree. Apps shouldn't be able to just run background processes willy-nilly, and I hate how that drains my battery for no good reason.

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#95

Post by pinewurst »

jonathankoren wrote: post #75
duaneb wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't need the information. They care because they are data driven and not personally culpable for their invasions of privacy. Why not collect everything you can without getting more permissions?

Data driven and being a giant Hoover isn't the same thing. One is about making decisions rationally. The other is about acquisition for acquisition sake. Personally, over never seen any evidence that Uber actually knows what it's doing except making a shit-ton of money. Even the self-drivIng car strikes me more as a sideffext of having a bunch of money they needed to spend and it won the rock-paper-scissors contest a…

There's no evidence that Uber makes a shit-ton of money. What evidence exists, points the other way:

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/11/can-uber-ever-deliver...

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/12/can-uber-ever-deliver...

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#96

Post by bastawhiz »

ipqk wrote: post #88
dav43 wrote: post #7

This is the perfect example of development for the sake of development. The new user experience is terrible and provides the user with zero extra benefits. I seriously can't see how a product manager signs off on these updates.

I live in NYC with a lot of one-way streets, including my home. I actually use two different addresses for my home depending on whether I'm being picked-up or dropped-off. Otherwise, when being dropped off, Uber has sent me on some really odd detours just to get me exactly in front of my house. Instead, I'd rather get dropped off at a corner and walk 200 feet. In theory, by collecting the location data 5 minutes afte…

This is exactly the kind of application that the data is going to be used for.

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#97

Post by visakanv »

bastawhiz wrote: post #91
yladiz wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but why does Uber need/care about that information? If I ask to be dropped off at X and walk a couple blocks to Y, Uber shouldn't care. I can understand the argument that maybe going to certain buildings you have to be dropped off at a specific spot, but that seems like a minor gain for something that's more than just a minor intrusion.

(Uber engineer here) The data is used for (or can be used for) a number of practical and important purposes. These are some examples of what we do as well as what we could do with such data: - Fighting fraud - Improving "suggested pickup" locations - Improvements around POOL (we'd rather suggest a location that's easy to pick up from than one that's unsafe) - Figuring out what side of the street you end up on (we can…

> Individual users' data is very closely guarded internally. It's immensely difficult to look at user data without specific access. Overwhelmingly, this data is queried in aggregate and fed into machine learning systems. The risk of abuse is exceptionally low.

But so you're saying it's possible? Somebody with high enough access at Uber might be able to stalk an ex-girlfriend and follow her home? Getting into trouble for it of course, but it wouldn't matter after a murder-suicide? Statistically improbable I know, but that's the sort of thing that people worry about

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#98

Post by forgottenpass »

bastawhiz wrote: post #91
yladiz wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but why does Uber need/care about that information? If I ask to be dropped off at X and walk a couple blocks to Y, Uber shouldn't care. I can understand the argument that maybe going to certain buildings you have to be dropped off at a specific spot, but that seems like a minor gain for something that's more than just a minor intrusion.

(Uber engineer here) The data is used for (or can be used for) a number of practical and important purposes. These are some examples of what we do as well as what we could do with such data: - Fighting fraud - Improving "suggested pickup" locations - Improvements around POOL (we'd rather suggest a location that's easy to pick up from than one that's unsafe) - Figuring out what side of the street you end up on (we can…

The data is used for (or can be used for) a number of practical and important purposes.

so.. uh.. (eyebrow wag) what else do you use it for that you didn't enumerate?

The risk of abuse is exceptionally low.

Except, of course, events where you and I disagree about what abuse is. Like tracking journalists around for shits and giggles.

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#99

Post by wheelerwj »

dgallagher wrote: post #51
amluto wrote: post #26

I really wish that both Android and iOS had an option to outright prevent an app from doing anything in the background. No sensors, no location, no push notifications, no network access, no CPU time, URL protocols, no nothing. If I don't click the little app icon, the app shouldn't run, full stop.

iOS gives you the option to disable Background App Refresh either for all apps, or for individual apps: Settings -> General -> Background App Refresh

so this will disable location and all other data for uber if its not in the foreground?

Re: Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

#100

Post by electic »

There is something very powerful you can do:

1. Stop using uber. Delete it. There is Lyft and Juno (in select markets).

2. Tell your friends about the dangers of using Uber.

You can make a profound change by voting with your pocket book. Lastly, believe it or not, a lot of your friends look to you for tech advice. Be vocal.

Post reply on HN