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Thoughts on Flash

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Re: Thoughts on Flash

#501

Post by loup-vaillant »

applenonymous wrote: post #448

Let's assume for the sake of argument that all of Steve's points are a smokescreen for what ultimately boils down to "Apple is in business to make money for Apple and Apple's shareholders, not to appease peers, developers, or even customers beyond the extent that they continue to give us their money, and anyone who stands in the way of what Apple believes to be its clearest path to profits can get bent." Why is that…

> But to imply that they have some obligation—moral or otherwise—to consider any interests but their own isn't just inaccurate, it's lunacy.

You just say that it's perfectly normal for Apple to behave like a psychopath. Now, replace "they" (Apple) by "any for-profit company in the world". And watch the world burn.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#502

Post by loup-vaillant »

jacquesm wrote: post #455
betageek wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, when did HN become all Apple fanboys, all the time? - I thought this was supposed to be a rational argument but it seems as long as Jobs is destroying Flash he's ok with everyone, even while he's locking down the rest of his platform.

> Wow, when did HN become all Apple fanboys, all the time? Not all the time, but I think it's quite telling that a gushing 'I love this, with a slight reservation' gets 150 upvotes and you are sitting here at the maximum downvotes for simply stating your opinion. Yuck.

Maybe most people on this thread are just blind. Blind to he "Treacherous Computing" which is applied to the iPhone and the iPad. Blind to the fact that these devices are fully fledged computers. Blind to the fact they wouldn't like to be locked out of their desktop PC in the same way.

Apple pulled out quite an American dream here: they made a sleek product, and were wildly successful. On top of that, they spurred a new gold rush (the App store lottery).

So, Apple looks great on the short term. On the long term, however, they make steps towards a society few would like. (Did you saw the mention to the "PC era" at the end? This is probably the most dangerous thing in the whole post. Yet it went unnoticed.)

The problem is, few think long term (it is dismissed as "idealism"). Most prefer short term (calling it "practicality"). HN is just no exception. (Opinions like "privacy is worthless" or "the BSD licence is more free than the GPL" are both short term-based, for instance.)

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#503

Post by loup-vaillant »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #461

> Flash was created during the PC era Do they actually believe that things like the iPhone and the iPad will displace our old PCs? No way. Not with the DRMs.

OK. Apparently, this was silly enough to warrant a down mod. So, let me ask this simple question:

Who here stopped using their desktop, to rely exclusively on an iPhone and an iPad? Who plans to? Why?

If Tablet PCs ever displace conventional ones, they won't have Treacherous Computing build in. Even my mom understands that depending entirely on a single company for much of her work and personal life is not a good deal.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#504

Post by rogermugs »

lionhearted wrote: post #425
grellas wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest from Fake Steve on this piece: http://www.fakesteve.net/2010/04/please-stop-thinking-about-... .

Oh man, I almost spit my tea out laughing at that. Wow.

tea is proprietary. we're more interested in an open standard like beer at apple.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#505

Post by stuntmouse »

megablast wrote: post #480
Sindisil wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes you can. The compiler is free and open ( http://opensource.adobe.com/wiki/display/flexsdk/Flex+SDK ). That, an editor, and Bob's your uncle. On Windows, there's also a nice open source IDE ( http://flashdevelop.org ). The one thing that's not open source is the player, and that is free.

You realise that Adobe lets you make any components you want EXCEPT FOR THE PLAYER? Why, because they want to retain control of it. I mean, they publish the spec, people have made players before, and they have been told by Adobe to stop. Sounds familiar.

It'd be interesting to pressure Adobe on this point right now, given the context.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#506

Post by coffeeaddicted »

stonemetal wrote: post #243
pilif wrote: post #64

> For example, although Mac OS X has been shipping for almost 10 years now, Adobe just adopted it fully (Cocoa) two weeks ago when they shipped CS5. right. And the Finder - a piece of Software central to OSX was using Carbon until... when exactly? At most 6 months prior to when CS5 came out. iTunes - a corner stone of the iPhone software world? Still on Carbon. If I hate one thing, it's hypocrisy. Aside of that, nice…

Unity works on Linux, Windows, and Mac OSX as well as iPhone. What isn't cross-platform about it? Do you mean doesn't work on android?

Actually Linux is not supported by them. I think it's Windows, Mac OSX, iPhone and Wii. Still cross-platform certainly.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#507

Post by [deleted] »

Qz wrote: post #474
ericd wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no issue with him shutting out something that really sucks today at the cost of potentially missing out on something awesome to do with it tomorrow. The awesome scenario just doesn't seem likely to come to pass. If tomorrow there's a completely great thing on the web that can only be done with flash, then I think Jobs is pragmatic enough to reevaluate. But the fact that the main use for Flash on the web these…

What flash ads? Just use AdBlock.

[deleted]

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#508

Post by tomlin »

ericd wrote: post #446
tomlin wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I am saying is that Steve Jobs isn't putting all the facts on the table as they are. He is feeding the anti-Flash gang mob with half-truths. To say Flash is proprietary, possibly poorly executed format is a fair thing to say. To say it is completely without merit and has no place is a fallacy. HTML5 video is widely supported today . Flash might be a delivery vehicle for another unrealized idea tomorrow. And the "…

I have no issue with him shutting out something that really sucks today at the cost of potentially missing out on something awesome to do with it tomorrow. The awesome scenario just doesn't seem likely to come to pass. If tomorrow there's a completely great thing on the web that can only be done with flash, then I think Jobs is pragmatic enough to reevaluate. But the fact that the main use for Flash on the web these…

> But the fact that the main use for Flash on the web these days, beside video and unusable websites, are animated flash ads that use up 40% of my much more powerful Macbook Pro's CPU time means I'm in no hurry to have flash on the phone

In my opinion, this is moot point. Annoying ads aren't going to be limited to Flash. HTML5 ads aren't going to be more fun.

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#509

Post by glhaynes »

elblanco wrote: post #414
potatolicious wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the cheese I object to - but that the Cheese breaks the internet in fundamental ways. Example: We just wrapped up Restaurant Week here in Seattle where a bunch of local establishments offered up prix-fixe specials for a couple of weeks. The website for this event was done up all in Flash, and made it impossible to crawl for a search engine, or even to link or bookmark a particular restaurant for later retrie…

And HTML5 canvas changes this how?

Because is used for just the "flashy" part of the site but everything else is still in traditional HTML with all of its advantages. Sure that can be done in Flash too, but, as we've seen, people often end up just doing the vast majority of the site in Flash. There's not the same temptation with .

Re: Thoughts on Flash

#510

Post by Psyonic »

ianbishop wrote: post #407
Psyonic wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what sense? This only addressed 3.3.1 indirectly. It made it clear that Flash was a target, but said absolutely nothing about other targets. Assuming everyone is in the clear from this would be a mistake, I think.

Right, but I don't think you would have the same reactive 'developer' lock-in if 3.3.1 was contextualized toward cross-platform right from the beginning. For example, EA who uses Lua for scripting wouldn't be worried as they likely were due to this two weeks late press release.

Agreed, but the same can't be said for all concerned parties. The Unity3d guys, for example, allow cross-platform development, and many quality games are already using it. I don't think development addresses their issue at all (in fact, it might have made it worse).
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