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Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart

gizmodo.com

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Re: Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart

#61

Post by harryh »

GabberBots wrote: post #59
harryh wrote: post #9

As someone who reads reddit fairly frequently, this doesn't reflect my experience on the site. In reality there is no unified reddit. I've taken a gander at /r/The_Donald a couple of times (mostly out of morbid curiosity) but other than those few times I've experienced very little impact of whatever it is they are doing. I read some sports subredits. I read some culture subredits. I read some of the bigger basic ente…

Would it be fair to say that the subs you visit are not typical targets for political discussions? The problem has been the chilling effects that T_D has had within its sphere of influence. The brunt of which has been felt by the mod teams in toeing the line between free speech and preventing civil unrest.

Yes, definitely. I don't really read anything at all related to politics on reddit. Perhaps the influence of /r/The_Donald is confined to those subreddits.

Re: Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart

#62

Post by rrggrr »

mikeryan wrote: post #14
harryh wrote: post #9

As someone who reads reddit fairly frequently, this doesn't reflect my experience on the site. In reality there is no unified reddit. I've taken a gander at /r/The_Donald a couple of times (mostly out of morbid curiosity) but other than those few times I've experienced very little impact of whatever it is they are doing. I read some sports subredits. I read some culture subredits. I read some of the bigger basic ente…

I don't see this on my own view of the site. But I click /r/all every so often just to get some variety and that's where you see this in effect. It seems an r/The_Donald post has been in one of the top two spots for the last few months with others in the queue.

The average front page Reddit post is thought to require about 323,500 views says... the internet.

Trump got about 13,000,000 votes in the primary election, which is relevant because its though primary voters are more active in the political participation.

The point being, I'm not sure given current headlines and the recency of the US election, that the front page stats are out of line.

Re: Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart

#63

Post by kyledrake »

the8472 wrote: post #15
paulcole wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit, a private website, is under no obligation to provide a safe space for free speech.

the entire internet is composed of private entities. following that logic there is practically no free speech on the internet.

Correct.

"Free speech" as enshrined in the US Constitution is designed to prevent the government from making laws against free expression. Any interpretation applying "free speech protections" to private entities hosting other private entities on their private property is either ideological, or an intense misunderstanding of the law.

Re: Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart

#64

Post by greglindahl »

wheelerwj wrote: post #38
a_bonobo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like it's a bigger problem for moderators than for users: >“There have been unquestionably instances [where] moderators of other subreddits were targeted by users in The_Donald,” Reddit told Gizmodo, and the leaked chatlogs reveal the extent. >Some moderators had been flooded with constant harassing messages. “One threatened to kill my fucking dog,” a moderator pleaded in the leaked Slack chat. A The_Donald use…

Yeah, this is what was REALLY shitty about /u/Spez's debacle. Profanity, hate speech, bullying, harassment aren't protected by free speech. And you see PLENTY of it coming out of the_donald. You don't have to tolerate that shit, you have every right to shut it down. But no, lets degrade ourselves by trolling the trolls. What a strategic waste. non-edit: greglindahl below me makes an excellent point on my choice of vo…

You're being sloppy with terms. In the US, obscenity isn't protected by free speech, but non-obscene profanity is. Hate speech? Threats of violence aren't free speech, but a lot of odious hate speech is. Court cases about bullying frequently fail.

Of course Reddit, being private, has the right to do whatever it wants. But it's important to realize where the lines are drawn for public discourse.

Re: Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart

#65

Post by fnovd »

throwanem wrote: post #36
legodt wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good way to acrue massive, immediate backlash on HN. Calling alt-righters out for being neonazis and reminding people that hate speech isn't free speech is apparently over the line for a subset of users here.

Arrant falsehood does tend to gravel people, I suppose. I'm not sure what anyone expects to gain by doubling down on the goodthink echo chamber that's just lost them an election. Emotional comfort, perhaps? I'm not without sympathy for the need - but that's a private matter. Governance in the US is public, and refusing to engage in the process merely cedes the field. Demonizing one's political opponents not only cede…

"One wonders if these people are people at all, or instead soulless golem"[1]

The rise of neonazism in the US is real. To claim otherwise, to imply that it is an "arrant falsehood," is to be purposefully ignorant.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq-LnO2DOGE

Re: Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart

#66

Post by a_bonobo »

greglindahl wrote: post #64
wheelerwj wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is what was REALLY shitty about /u/Spez's debacle. Profanity, hate speech, bullying, harassment aren't protected by free speech. And you see PLENTY of it coming out of the_donald. You don't have to tolerate that shit, you have every right to shut it down. But no, lets degrade ourselves by trolling the trolls. What a strategic waste. non-edit: greglindahl below me makes an excellent point on my choice of vo…

You're being sloppy with terms. In the US, obscenity isn't protected by free speech, but non-obscene profanity is. Hate speech? Threats of violence aren't free speech, but a lot of odious hate speech is. Court cases about bullying frequently fail. Of course Reddit, being private, has the right to do whatever it wants. But it's important to realize where the lines are drawn for public discourse.

I don't think harassment via private messages counts as public discourse

Re: Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart

#67

Post by tux1968 »

sanswork wrote: post #43
tux1968 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that Reddit will be throwing away one of its most essential contributions to the internet if it resorts to servicing just one side of this debate. If you're not confronted with the best arguments of your adversaries, you won't understand, learn, or prevail.

There is a lot of worthless hate speech in the world. Nothing is learned from it except that the speaker is ignorant. The stuff people are taking about blocking and removing from their services is far from the best arguments or adversaries. It is the trash.

It's hard to be a fair judge when you disagree with someone so deeply. Rather than take the risk of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, it might be prudent to turn this into a teaching moment instead.

Teach our side of the isle.. don't engage with idiots.. engage only with well formed arguments. We could learn something and become better people rather than becoming reactionary because we're unequipped to deal with alternate views. In the end, it's really not that hard to ignore the worst of it on Reddit, it would be even easier if people on our side didn't freak out about every tidbit.

Re: Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart

#68

Post by the8472 »

leephillips wrote: post #41
the8472 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the entire internet is composed of private entities. following that logic there is practically no free speech on the internet.

I can exercise my right of free speech on my website. What do you mean?

Hosters and DNS providers can kick you out. This doesn't happen often, but occasionally it does, without court order, when a customer becomes too inconvenient. Some don't even want to deal with DMCA notices, so even when they get fake ones they kick you out after a few.

Re: Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart

#69

Post by wallace_f »

sanswork wrote: post #43
tux1968 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that Reddit will be throwing away one of its most essential contributions to the internet if it resorts to servicing just one side of this debate. If you're not confronted with the best arguments of your adversaries, you won't understand, learn, or prevail.

There is a lot of worthless hate speech in the world. Nothing is learned from it except that the speaker is ignorant. The stuff people are taking about blocking and removing from their services is far from the best arguments or adversaries. It is the trash.

Historically speaking, moral righteousness has always been the primary argument for curtailing free speech.

Re: Reddit Is Tearing Itself Apart

#70

Post by orblivion »

JurgenJugglar wrote: post #34

>these two women are "as fat as whales" and furthermore that they deserve to be derided based on physical appearance because of their expressed political opinions. Comedic body shapes paired with comedic political views and philosophies. What's wrong with it? They tried cheap virtue signaling and lost the bet. Boo hoo my sympathies. To deride the visual and linguistic imagination of cognitive entities as "hate speech…

"Hate speech" is a bit of an Orwellian term. It includes things that aren't really hateful. For instance, if somebody had the belief that all members of a certain race should be sterilized for their own good, I would guess it would be considered hate speech, despite that it is rooted in a sickly paternalistic sort of sympathy. That's just a specific example. My point is that the vagueness of the term leaves it open to interpretation, which I think many would agree causes problems.
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