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Let's Colonize Titan

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#491

Post by banach »

overgard wrote: post #303
banach wrote: post #106

I think that, before colonizing other planets, we should start by realizing that Earth can easily sustain human kind for the foreseeable future, given some pretty modest tweaks to our way of life (compared to "going multi-planetary" that is). If we start valuing quality over novelty, stop eating animal-based foods and re-organize to live closer to where we work, we can stop the consumption and that is taxing our ecos…

You're creating a false choice here. There's no reason we can't colonize other planets and also change local lifestyles. They're totally separate issues. Even if we treated the earth perfectly there's all sort of natural ways the planet could do us in or set civilization back a huge degree (asteroids, super volcanoes, etc.). Colonizing planets makes sense for the exact same reason insurance makes sense - shit happens…

I agree, and of course I would like us to do both, but in light of announcements like these:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/22/nasa-ear...

all I am saying is that we need to keep our priorities straight.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#492

Post by phs318u »

gilopll wrote: post #406
phs318u wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they are the easier to solve, however your comparison is unfair. One one hand we're trying to solve for the entire human race, on the other hand we're solving for a handful of colonists. Now try expanding your colony for a significant proportion of the planet's population.

The colonists have no interest in solving problems for the rest of humanity

Indeed. In which case no one should be surprised when the "rest of humanity" doesn't get behind the colonisation effort as enthusiastically as some.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#493

Post by banach »

BobTheCoder wrote: post #363
banach wrote: post #106

I think that, before colonizing other planets, we should start by realizing that Earth can easily sustain human kind for the foreseeable future, given some pretty modest tweaks to our way of life (compared to "going multi-planetary" that is). If we start valuing quality over novelty, stop eating animal-based foods and re-organize to live closer to where we work, we can stop the consumption and that is taxing our ecos…

Hi, I think both are highly valuable. But I agree that it is remarkable that we appear to be putting in little effort into trying to resolve our societal issues. I think a new system is required. https://opensocialism.com is my very alpha initial version that I'm trying to iterate on. Are you interested in helping? :O

Sure, looks interesting!

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#494

Post by Neeek »

criddell wrote: post #450
Neeek wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get a moped. Safer than your pushie if your lacking the infrastructure, the only reason riding a bike is so dangerous anyway is the amount of cars on the road. Notice that basically all the cars on the road have 1 person and 4 empty seats every morning? You're burning all the fuel to basically move an empty car around, a 50cc moped is burning 36 times less fuel per power stroke than my corolla (ignoring combustion ef…

I have a Kawasaki KLR 650 and a Toyota Prius. My Toyota uses less fuel than my motorcycle. A lot more energy went into making the Toyota, so maybe over the lifetime of the vehicles the motorcycle is still better. On the other hand, I can carry four people in the Toyota along with quite a bit of cargo in the trunk and the fuel consumption doesn't change all that much.

I think we can all agree that comparing a Prius is not the same as comparing a non hybrid car, not to mention 650 is rather large compared to the bikes I'm suggesting but still cool to hear that out of the Prius. Just out of curiosity, how much fuel are we talking here for the Kawasaki?

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#495

Post by Neeek »

benibela wrote: post #475
khedoros1 wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only 37% worse, when measured by vehicle-km (I say in an optimistic tone, trying to hide my displeasure at the number). I lived in Germany for a few years. I was too young to drive at the time, but I remember that my parents were impressed by some of the behaviors taught there, and I've always wished that American driver education was less half-assed than it is.

Btw Germany has no speed limit on the highways

On specific, incredibly well maintained highways. I think they also have an age limit for the cars that can use them? I'm less clear on that one, that may have been lost in translation speaking to my Dutch friend.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#496

Post by samstave »

scardine wrote: post #437
samstave wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do these populations currently exist? Or are you suggesting we build them? Have you looked into or thought about "breakaway civilization"?

I would say some nuclear submarines qualify.

I love subs - they are awe-inspiring, amazing feats of engineering and terrifying weapons.

I highly recommend watching various documentaries on them. I think I have consumed every sub dock I could find online.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHIS1I9tv78 is a great one. Also, note that the engineering needed to make the Global Explorer was new and significant. I think that with the making of that ship, the CIA gained a lot of know-how for sea-ops, which likely played at least a minor factor into their ability to make requirements/requests into the design of the Jimmy Carter sub, which is largely believed to be the sub they use to splice undersea cables/or cut them...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Azorian

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#497

Post by criddell »

Neeek wrote: post #494
criddell wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Kawasaki KLR 650 and a Toyota Prius. My Toyota uses less fuel than my motorcycle. A lot more energy went into making the Toyota, so maybe over the lifetime of the vehicles the motorcycle is still better. On the other hand, I can carry four people in the Toyota along with quite a bit of cargo in the trunk and the fuel consumption doesn't change all that much.

I think we can all agree that comparing a Prius is not the same as comparing a non hybrid car, not to mention 650 is rather large compared to the bikes I'm suggesting but still cool to hear that out of the Prius. Just out of curiosity, how much fuel are we talking here for the Kawasaki?

The Kawasaki gets 40-45 mpg to produce a stunning 38 HP. I don't know the torque number, but it's pretty good in that department.

It's fuel economy and power production sucks in large part because the motor uses a carburetor rather than fuel injection. At first I thought that was a benefit, in practice I can understand why every other bike maker uses fuel injection.

But hey, you can usually buy a brand new one for $5500. That's one benefit of them selling pretty much the same bike since 1987. Plus there's a huge aftermarket parts market.

The Prius gives me a pretty reliable 45 mpg (I drive the same road every day). If I really baby it, I can get closer to 50.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#498

Post by Neeek »

criddell wrote: post #497
Neeek wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we can all agree that comparing a Prius is not the same as comparing a non hybrid car, not to mention 650 is rather large compared to the bikes I'm suggesting but still cool to hear that out of the Prius. Just out of curiosity, how much fuel are we talking here for the Kawasaki?

The Kawasaki gets 40-45 mpg to produce a stunning 38 HP. I don't know the torque number, but it's pretty good in that department. It's fuel economy and power production sucks in large part because the motor uses a carburetor rather than fuel injection. At first I thought that was a benefit, in practice I can understand why every other bike maker uses fuel injection. But hey, you can usually buy a brand new one for $5…

My mate is looking at getting one of these, interesting bike. It's a single huge cylinder which is probably part of the problem as well as the carby, at least until you hit the highway. The carby is just a relic I think, these things stay in production a long time, the CT110 for instance only had it's first major redesign a couple years ago which moved to fuel injection, before that it was pretty much unchanged since 1980 (and even then it's pretty much identical to the old C90's that preceded it).

Sorry for the rambling, I've been really getting in to bikes since starting this project, hahah. I'll abstain from asking any more questions about the bike or Prius, thanks for taking the time to reply!

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#499

Post by veli_joza »

azernik wrote: post #326
veli_joza wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As attractive as American military budget seems, why would it be in interest of USA to colonize another planet? A different nation would be formed with no more sense of attachment to USA than to rest of Earth. Rather, evolution teaches us that we have to form next stage of complex entity before these kinds of funding can be secured. Atoms -> molecules -> amino-acides -> self replicating compounds -> multicellular org…

> Rather, evolution teaches us that we have to form next stage of complex entity before these kinds of funding can be secured. Ummmmm. What.

Yeah, re-reading this I find I expressed myself rather clumsily.

What I meant is that currently it's not in the best interest of any individual nation to invest significant resources into space exploration & colonization because it puts it to disadvantage to other nations. So far most of resources seem to be directed at spying satellites and communication networks.

The trend in evolution is that bonds/organizations/alliances form themselves at higher and higher abstraction levels. Extrapolating this trend, I expect some sort of stable planetary entity to occur at some point, that could pull off an engineering project of this scope.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#500

Post by banach »

roryisok wrote: post #335
banach wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can assure you that I am not trolling. I am simply convinced that most of our problems are well within our control. Unfortunately, fatalism seems to be very chic today.

I'm not being a fatalist if I think "we should all live closer to our jobs to save energy" is unrealistic.

I think you are. Sprawl can be mitigated by regulation:

http://www.ted.com/talks/ellen_dunham_jones_retrofitting_sub...

https://ctr.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploads/pubs/0_4420_2.pdf

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