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Let's Colonize Titan

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#331

Post by stcredzero »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #320
stcredzero wrote: post #310

Although the atmosphere lacks oxygen, water ice just below the surface could be used to provide oxygen for breathing and to combust hydrocarbons as fuel. Red flag! It's a nonstarter to extract oxygen from water, use it to burn a hydrocarbon, then try to come out with more useful energy than you started with. This might have some use as an energy storage scheme, as storing hydrocarbons can be cheaper and more energy d…

wouldn't the same weak gravity imply less dense atmosphere to support wings, evening out?

Not necessarily. Titan's atmosphere is actually denser than Earth's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Titan

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#332

Post by Tepix »

kqr2 wrote: post #9

Here are some good arguments for colonizing Mercury: http://einstein-schrodinger.com/mercury_colony.html

Interesting. The strong radiation and long travel time make this even more problematic than a 3-6 month trip away from the Sun to Mars, however.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#333

Post by danenania »

olegkikin wrote: post #209
banach wrote: post #106

I think that, before colonizing other planets, we should start by realizing that Earth can easily sustain human kind for the foreseeable future, given some pretty modest tweaks to our way of life (compared to "going multi-planetary" that is). If we start valuing quality over novelty, stop eating animal-based foods and re-organize to live closer to where we work, we can stop the consumption and that is taxing our ecos…

All it takes is one large-ish asteroid to wipe out everything except maybe a few lucky smaller organisms/viruses that get ejected into the open space. AFAIK, a 300-mile diameter asteroid would sterilize the planet. That's why we should become multiplanetary species sooner, rather than later.

But what is the probabilistic timeline on a large asteroid hitting us vs. rendering the planet uninhabitable by our own devices? We aren't currently looking like a great bet to last thousands of years longer, forget the million-year intervals on which large asteroids are a serious threat.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#334

Post by s_q_b »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #321
stcredzero wrote: post #310

Although the atmosphere lacks oxygen, water ice just below the surface could be used to provide oxygen for breathing and to combust hydrocarbons as fuel. Red flag! It's a nonstarter to extract oxygen from water, use it to burn a hydrocarbon, then try to come out with more useful energy than you started with. This might have some use as an energy storage scheme, as storing hydrocarbons can be cheaper and more energy d…

And would it really be ok to walk around in methane in just a coat? Wouldn't your skin react?

The temperature is so cold that it would freeze your body if you were exposed, so you would still need an airtight seal. But the atmospheric pressure is high enough that you wouldn't need a bulky vacuum-proof pressurized spacesuit.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#335

Post by roryisok »

banach wrote: post #327
roryisok wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole comment is so apparently naive it feels like trolling.

I can assure you that I am not trolling. I am simply convinced that most of our problems are well within our control. Unfortunately, fatalism seems to be very chic today.

I'm not being a fatalist if I think "we should all live closer to our jobs to save energy" is unrealistic.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#336

Post by mrec »

acchow wrote: post #190
banach wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the pursuit of knowledge is a really good way to spend your time, but I do not like when simple solutions to real problems are sidelined in favor of the latest buzzword-oriented technology fetish. In times when the president-elect has announced that he is shutting down NASA's climate change research, ostensibly to fund space exploration, I think we need to remind ourselves that any work we chose to pursu…

I think we should colonize other planets because we can. Not as a solution to any problem. I will defer to The West Wing to explain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yUHnERJ0zs

I think The West Wing has better explanations than that. I was sure your link was going to be to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s92lsTMcZQ

EDIT: this one has a bit more context: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2HzHSeV9v8

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#337

Post by s_q_b »

stcredzero wrote: post #331
jjtheblunt wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wouldn't the same weak gravity imply less dense atmosphere to support wings, evening out?

Not necessarily. Titan's atmosphere is actually denser than Earth's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Titan

Dense atmospheres also make it much easier to enter, descend, and land (EDL), since they can be used for drag parachutes and atmospheric braking.

The atmosphere on Mars by comparison is awful for landing spacecraft. It has just enough density to jumble the craft's trajectory, so vacuum-based EDL techniques similar to the moon landing are impossible, but it's too thin for atmospheric EDL systems similar to those used on Earth.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#338

Post by kristianp »

stcredzero wrote: post #310

Although the atmosphere lacks oxygen, water ice just below the surface could be used to provide oxygen for breathing and to combust hydrocarbons as fuel. Red flag! It's a nonstarter to extract oxygen from water, use it to burn a hydrocarbon, then try to come out with more useful energy than you started with. This might have some use as an energy storage scheme, as storing hydrocarbons can be cheaper and more energy d…

That first one is pretty funny, but perhaps we can assume the writers have enough science to realise the energy levels issue.

They may have omitted to say it, but I can imagine a fission power plant splitting water into H and O, which would be useful for a portable fuel source for flights, orbital launches, heating of suits and batteries, jetpacks, etc.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#339

Post by throwbsidbdk »

This is rediculous. I would take a vacuum any day over an atmosphere that's -300°!!! And it's thicker than earth so the thermal problem will be even worse. It's probably harder to insulate these crazy temps than protect from a vacuum.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#340

Post by vorg »

grkvlt wrote: post #104
JorgeGT wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon views Mars colonization not as a way to solve lack of habitation space in Earth, but as an off-premises security backup should something terrible happen on Earth.

Off topic, sorry; but why do you use his first name only here? Normally we would refer to minor public figures like him as 'Elon Musk' or just 'Musk'. Using someone's first name is reserved for personal friends. I have also seen this with Linus Torvalds, for example, and Linux aficionados. It seems like there is an exception for some people, perhaps it just has to do with popularity within a segment of the population…

Whether to given name or surname is culturally specific.

I got suspicious last week when someone I don't know sent me a personal email saying "X and the others called my employer and got me fired", using the given name instead of surname for person X, like they knew that person. At first I thought it was a veiled threat, but then I realized I was thinking about how I would address that person and that someone else would address them differently.

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