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Let's Colonize Titan

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#311

Post by anigbrowl »

banach wrote: post #256
ferbivore wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you seriously think that any of the following global political challenges: - convince everyone on Earth to implement changes that are bad for them, like not eating animal-based foods, with only the promise of "maybe in 200 years your descendants, should your line not be extinct by then, will benefit" as compensation - reorganise every single human settlement and/or social structure on Earth to put people closer to…

>Do you seriously think that any of the following global political challenges: > > - convince everyone on Earth to implement changes that are bad for them, like not eating animal-based foods, with only the promise of "maybe in 200 years your descendants, should your line not be extinct by then, will benefit" as compensation Even if we assume that people are as self-centered as you portray them, eating meat is not nec…

I'm european and while I share your attitudes your policy prescriptions come off as shallow and naive. It'd be hard to find a forum where people are more aware of things like the upsides of renewable energy than they are on HN, for example. You think the answers are simple, we think your answers are well-intentioned but simplistic.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#312

Post by throwaway98237 »

The point of going to Mars is to give humanity a plan b, not as a vacation with lots of hiking and other outdoor leisure stuff. Considering how much time an Earthling spends indoors, it's not a huge leap to spend all of one's time indoors. Building underground and staying inside. There, problem solved. Makes a whole lot more sense than making our first attempt at colonizing a whole new would at the distances we'd be looking at with Titan.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#313

Post by Roboprog »

johngalt wrote: post #264

What's the net energy on combusting hydrocarbon fuel when all your oxygen comes from breaking the oxygen bonded with H20? I'm betting it's not great.

Negative. But storing liquid H2 is hard, vs (CH2)n. Carrying around O2 and Propane is easier than putting a nuke on wheels.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#314

Post by stale2002 »

repsilat wrote: post #272
ferbivore wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you seriously think that any of the following global political challenges: - convince everyone on Earth to implement changes that are bad for them, like not eating animal-based foods, with only the promise of "maybe in 200 years your descendants, should your line not be extinct by then, will benefit" as compensation - reorganise every single human settlement and/or social structure on Earth to put people closer to…

Even if everybody eats twice as many animals as they do now and moves further away from their workplaces, Earth will remain a more livable place than Titan. Maybe that isn't true if we kick off a nuclear war, but it probably still is. Global warming? Titan's atmosphere is literally not breathable, and the outside temperature is colder than any place on Earth. Food scarcity? Nothing grows on Titan. If you're growing i…

You are only focusing on the drawbacks of titan, and not on its significant benefits.

Titan has practically limitless amounts of fuel in the form of oceans of flowing hydrocarbons.

Titan should be though of as a resource, not necessarily as a sprawling multi-billion person supporting planet.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#315

Post by JoeAltmaier »

nkoren wrote: post #308
justinhj wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before agriculture and civilization as we know it, people lived all over the world. Their lifestyles were sustainable and included meat.

"Sustainable", if you conveniently forget about the extinction of the Woolly Mammoth, Woolly Rhino, Giant Sloths, Sabre Tooth Cats, Glyptodonts, Elephant Birds, Giant Lemurs, Giant Otters, Cave Lion, Cave Bear, Cave Hyena, Irish Elk, American horses, Diprotodons, Neanderthals, Denisovans etc. It wasn't until we finished extirpating the majority of the non-African megafauna and apex predators and the totallity of all…

Those large creatures added up to a tiny fraction of the ecosystem - almost a negligible portion. They're visible and interesting - fuzzy and dangerous etc - but of no significance to most of life on earth. Like insects, birds, worms, bacteria etc. Not to mention grasses, flowering plants and algae. No, most of life on earth never noticed the extinction of apex predators ( nor their invention either ).

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#316

Post by rhaps0dy »

vacri wrote: post #288
sliken wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mars has way more sunlight (much closer to the sun and a much thinner atmosphere), which makes solar much easier. So equipment, supplies, and solar could be on the surface, and the radiation sensitive humans could be a few meters underground. As you mine for water you could dump the useless stuff on the surface and use the emptied space for living quarters. Question is why live somewhere that's tougher than the top o…

Faced with the reality of living in a mine for the rest of their lives, no-one who is keen on colonising Mars would actually then sign up for it. Who would agree to basically imprison themselves on the off-chance of being the seed of a new humanity if the earth is made uninhabitable (an already unlikely proposition)? Humans live in a ridiculous variety of environments as it is - an extinction event would have to be u…

.i na vacri la .mars. .u'i

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#317

Post by Roboprog »

cstross wrote: post #12

They almost had me until ... On the surface, vast quantities of hydrocarbons in solid and liquid form lie ready to be used for energy. Although the atmosphere lacks oxygen, water ice just below the surface could be used to provide oxygen for breathing and to combust hydrocarbons as fuel. Riiiight. And you're going to get the power to electrolytically split that water into hydrogen and oxygen where, exactly? (Whoever…

You had it with the fusion reactor. Manned exploration of the solar system is pretty much contingent on having fusion power. Once we do that, we can create constant thrust engines as well as light up greenhouses where ever. At least, those of us with some significant cash could.

I suppose cheap fusion could be dangerous, as well. Imagine every Joe Sixpack with a railgun powered by Mr Fusion. (sort of a Snowcrash meets Back to the Future dystopia)

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#318

Post by Roboprog »

FreeFull wrote: post #82
cstross wrote: post #12

They almost had me until ... On the surface, vast quantities of hydrocarbons in solid and liquid form lie ready to be used for energy. Although the atmosphere lacks oxygen, water ice just below the surface could be used to provide oxygen for breathing and to combust hydrocarbons as fuel. Riiiight. And you're going to get the power to electrolytically split that water into hydrogen and oxygen where, exactly? (Whoever…

As far as I can tell, combustion of methane seems to produce significantly more energy (around twice as much) as burning hydrogen, for the same amount of oxygen. Note that burning carbohydrates also produces carbon dioxide in addition to water.

Sorry, No. It takes 3(O2) molecules to combust a CH4 molecule. 3(O2) + 6(H2) generates more heat.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#319

Post by Roboprog »

rcarmo wrote: post #111
wobbleblob wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm just a science fiction writer Did you write anything we may have heard about?

Dude, that's Charlie Stross. Google him, you might notice some awards being mentioned and stuff. :)

OOOOO KKKKKK. I didn't notice the login name. Cool.

Yeah, he's discussed a few stories about colonization, either by robots or scattered humans (via an AI singularity).

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#320

Post by jjtheblunt »

stcredzero wrote: post #310

Although the atmosphere lacks oxygen, water ice just below the surface could be used to provide oxygen for breathing and to combust hydrocarbons as fuel. Red flag! It's a nonstarter to extract oxygen from water, use it to burn a hydrocarbon, then try to come out with more useful energy than you started with. This might have some use as an energy storage scheme, as storing hydrocarbons can be cheaper and more energy d…

wouldn't the same weak gravity imply less dense atmosphere to support wings, evening out?
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