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Let's Colonize Titan

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#481

Post by khedoros1 »

benibela wrote: post #476
khedoros1 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My commute is 12-15 minutes by car and 55 minutes to an hour and a half by bus (assuming the buses were actually on time, which is unrealistic here). Plus either time to make and pack a lunch, or the time to walk to a fast food restaurant near work for lunch. Plus a similar commute time back. It's somewhat faster (but more dangerous) to ride a bicycle. If my goal is a fast, safe commute, I don't have a realistic opti…

In a modern world there should be no commute Definitely not once there is VR tech

Even with the best VR set-up that would be feasible at home, I'd need somewhere to go where my 2 year old isn't screaming, and somewhere better than my bed to sit and work all day. And to go in to the office when any of the machines lose connectivity.

I'd still have to go somewhere besides my home every day (hoping for a remote VR work office in walking distance), and some days I'd need to commute anyhow.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#482

Post by MrZongle2 »

antisthenes wrote: post #399
c22 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if you're only doing it to safeguard against extinction level events why not just set up multiple contingency populations underground here on this planet? They won't have to travel as far after the event.

We could even call them Vaults and give them numbers!

I'm going to start saving up on bottle caps and water purifiers.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#483

Post by MrZongle2 »

pilom wrote: post #284
kitsunesoba wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The surface of the moon is dramatically more hostile than the surface of Mars by every metric, and it's almost as hard to get to the moon as it is to get to Mars. Building a long term permanent colony on the moon would be far more difficult than doing so on Mars. As long as you can manage the travel, Mars is by far the more desirable target for colonization, both short term and long term. Elon Musk believes that his…

Can you give some examples for how the moon is more hostile? I've always thought that for both you need a pressure suit but that the temps and radiation numbers were similar? Sure it's 21 days of hot then 21 days of cold instead of 24.5 hours but that seems much easier to deal with than the communications delay and travel times?

In addition to kitsunesoba's excellent answer, consider the potential hazards of lunar dust: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080924191552.h... .

That isn't to say that Martian dust won't be an issue, of course...but perhaps one that is slightly less problematic.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#484

Post by crsmithdev »

pavelrub wrote: post #159
banach wrote: post #106

I think that, before colonizing other planets, we should start by realizing that Earth can easily sustain human kind for the foreseeable future, given some pretty modest tweaks to our way of life (compared to "going multi-planetary" that is). If we start valuing quality over novelty, stop eating animal-based foods and re-organize to live closer to where we work, we can stop the consumption and that is taxing our ecos…

Yes let's stop all scientific and technological progress which isn't directly related to achieving utopia on earth, until a hypothetical point in the future that will never come. Is everything you do and find important in life directly related to improving our ecosystem and eliminating nuclear stockpiles? Do you think it's ok to be interested, for example, in web development, but not in space colonization? Maybe inst…

Your first paragraph there is a straw man -- that's not even remotely what was suggested, and you know it.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#485

Post by kafkaesq »

pavelrub wrote: post #159
banach wrote: post #106

I think that, before colonizing other planets, we should start by realizing that Earth can easily sustain human kind for the foreseeable future, given some pretty modest tweaks to our way of life (compared to "going multi-planetary" that is). If we start valuing quality over novelty, stop eating animal-based foods and re-organize to live closer to where we work, we can stop the consumption and that is taxing our ecos…

Yes let's stop all scientific and technological progress which isn't directly related to achieving utopia on earth, until a hypothetical point in the future that will never come. Is everything you do and find important in life directly related to improving our ecosystem and eliminating nuclear stockpiles? Do you think it's ok to be interested, for example, in web development, but not in space colonization? Maybe inst…

Yes let's stop all scientific and technological progress which isn't directly related to achieving utopia on earth, until a hypothetical point in the future that will never come.

Slapstick arguments don't help. The whole point is that none of the proposals offered in the comment above yours are even remotely "utopian". They're all pretty much common sense (or should be by now), actually.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#486

Post by kafkaesq »

paulddraper wrote: post #177
banach wrote: post #106

I think that, before colonizing other planets, we should start by realizing that Earth can easily sustain human kind for the foreseeable future, given some pretty modest tweaks to our way of life (compared to "going multi-planetary" that is). If we start valuing quality over novelty, stop eating animal-based foods and re-organize to live closer to where we work, we can stop the consumption and that is taxing our ecos…

https://xkcd.com/1232/

We shouldn't be exploring other planets until all we've solved all problems here on earth.

Except that that wasn't what the above commenter was saying, of course.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#487

Post by jonshariat »

chriswarbo wrote: post #432
jonshariat wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also I always wonder why these articles gloss over the health issues related to low gravity. Thats not something we've figured out either. Astronauts lose a lot of bone density in space.

Colonising is different to visiting. When visiting, changes (like in bone density) are bad, but can be monitored and taken into account when planning the mission duration. When colonising, some permanent changes may be fine, since the change in environment is also permanent. If a colonist visited Earth, they would have to take into account the health issues caused by high gravity. I agree that much more research is n…

True but the brittleness still remains, smash too hard into something and your bone will crack.

Also theres blindness, cardiovascular, and other issues as well.

Definitely needs more research. Also makes me wonder about Elon's plans to bring people back, might not be possible after a certain length of stay on Mars.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#488

Post by banach »

tjic wrote: post #434
pavelrub wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that your notion of "real problems" is artificial. If our society prioritizes space colonization above eliminating nuclear stockpiles, and people are willing to accept the risk posed by the existence of those stockpiles, then there is no sense in continuing to refer to it as a "main issue facing our society". Maybe you consider it to be a main issue, but society doesn't. Or maybe society does consider…

> The problem is that your notion of "real problems" is artificial. If our society prioritizes space colonization above eliminating nuclear stockpiles, Nuclear stockpiles serve as a deterrent to aggression; the fact that the US and Soviet Union did not have a conventional WWIII between 1945 and 1990 is because both sides (and England and France) had nuclear weapons that made conventional invasions untenable. Getting…

I don't like to recommend books in these situations, but in this case you might find "Command and Control" interesting. It describes a huge number of near-disasters that I, for one, had never heard about (e.g. armed thermonuclear weapons accidentally dropping out of bombers in populated areas). Mind you, I am not even suggesting getting rid of the stockpiles, merely limiting them to the level required to constitute a reasonable deterrent. What we have today is far too great of a risk for the safety they are supposedly buying us.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#489

Post by jonshariat »

Neeek wrote: post #407
jonshariat wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also I always wonder why these articles gloss over the health issues related to low gravity. Thats not something we've figured out either. Astronauts lose a lot of bone density in space.

That is actually more solved than you think. [1]ARED is basically equivalent to free-weight training under Earth gravity. Many problems with exercise in space is that elastic materials provide different resistance depending on how far they are deformed, meaning muscles that are used more at the beginning of your rep are worked less than those you use near the end. ARED uses a piston under vacuum to provide constant r…

Yeah I've seen videos about that, its useful to keep the decay at bay but its still in issue.

Also there is blindness, cardiovascular issues, and more. I hope they can figure out how to mitigate or remove these issues.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#490

Post by banach »

lmm wrote: post #457
banach wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think that adopting a sustainable way of life is unfeasible, while establishing a self-sustaining colony on another planet is? Many of the changes I am talking about are already taking place. For example, renewables have recently become a viable alternative ( http://www.sciencealert.com/india-says-the-cost-of-solar-pow... ) and population growth is projected to taper off after 2050 ( http://abcnews.go.c…

Yes, I do. Ultimately there is no such thing as a sustainable way of life, thanks to the second law of thermodynamics. It's not that long until the sun burns out - by which time we'll have to have figured out how to settle not only on other planets but in other solar systems.

Nice one. I will make sure to bring out entropy next time someone accuses me of not thinking of the long run.
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