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Let's Colonize Titan

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#431

Post by FreeFull »

Roboprog wrote: post #318
FreeFull wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I can tell, combustion of methane seems to produce significantly more energy (around twice as much) as burning hydrogen, for the same amount of oxygen. Note that burning carbohydrates also produces carbon dioxide in addition to water.

Sorry, No. It takes 3(O2) molecules to combust a CH4 molecule. 3(O2) + 6(H2) generates more heat.

Sorry, yes, you're right. Then splitting the water would definitely be energy negative (although still desired, to produce something the colonists can breathe).

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#432

Post by chriswarbo »

jonshariat wrote: post #386
stcredzero wrote: post #310

Although the atmosphere lacks oxygen, water ice just below the surface could be used to provide oxygen for breathing and to combust hydrocarbons as fuel. Red flag! It's a nonstarter to extract oxygen from water, use it to burn a hydrocarbon, then try to come out with more useful energy than you started with. This might have some use as an energy storage scheme, as storing hydrocarbons can be cheaper and more energy d…

Also I always wonder why these articles gloss over the health issues related to low gravity. Thats not something we've figured out either. Astronauts lose a lot of bone density in space.

Colonising is different to visiting.

When visiting, changes (like in bone density) are bad, but can be monitored and taken into account when planning the mission duration.

When colonising, some permanent changes may be fine, since the change in environment is also permanent. If a colonist visited Earth, they would have to take into account the health issues caused by high gravity.

I agree that much more research is needed though; even if some physiological changes are acceptable for colonising, we should make damned sure we know what they are, and what the unacceptable changes are.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#433

Post by xupybd »

banach wrote: post #106

I think that, before colonizing other planets, we should start by realizing that Earth can easily sustain human kind for the foreseeable future, given some pretty modest tweaks to our way of life (compared to "going multi-planetary" that is). If we start valuing quality over novelty, stop eating animal-based foods and re-organize to live closer to where we work, we can stop the consumption and that is taxing our ecos…

Why not aim for both? Also suggest I should stop eating meat and I'm afraid we can't be friends

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#434

Post by tjic »

pavelrub wrote: post #270
banach wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the pursuit of knowledge is a really good way to spend your time, but I do not like when simple solutions to real problems are sidelined in favor of the latest buzzword-oriented technology fetish. In times when the president-elect has announced that he is shutting down NASA's climate change research, ostensibly to fund space exploration, I think we need to remind ourselves that any work we chose to pursu…

The problem is that your notion of "real problems" is artificial. If our society prioritizes space colonization above eliminating nuclear stockpiles, and people are willing to accept the risk posed by the existence of those stockpiles, then there is no sense in continuing to refer to it as a "main issue facing our society". Maybe you consider it to be a main issue, but society doesn't. Or maybe society does consider…

> The problem is that your notion of "real problems" is artificial. If our society prioritizes space colonization above eliminating nuclear stockpiles,

Nuclear stockpiles serve as a deterrent to aggression; the fact that the US and Soviet Union did not have a conventional WWIII between 1945 and 1990 is because both sides (and England and France) had nuclear weapons that made conventional invasions untenable.

Getting rid of "nuclear stockpiles" is a terrible idea.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#435

Post by xupybd »

phs318u wrote: post #268
pavelrub wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes let's stop all scientific and technological progress which isn't directly related to achieving utopia on earth, until a hypothetical point in the future that will never come. Is everything you do and find important in life directly related to improving our ecosystem and eliminating nuclear stockpiles? Do you think it's ok to be interested, for example, in web development, but not in space colonization? Maybe inst…

I don't believe parent was suggesting that current problems be the sole focus of our attention to the exclusion of all else. However there is a valid point to be made with respect to people's ability (or lack thereof) to line up behind even the most moderate of global proposals. For example, in the grand scheme of things we (human race) can't even accept a slight change to our lifestyle and moderate economic impositi…

Yeah but some of us think the social problems we currently inflict on our selves aren't going anywhere soon. So let's see what we can find out in space while everyone is still trying to find a way to play nice back on earth. It's not going to fix anything back here but man it would be kick ass. That's enough reason for me.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#436

Post by xupybd »

banach wrote: post #117
jgrowl wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. None of those are simple changes.

I am not being sarcastic. Compared to terraforming, or even colonizing a planet to the point where it becomes a serious alternative to Earth, they are utterly trivial.

I'd say the opposite. Terraforming is a massive engineering challenge. People rise to engineering challenges and create amazing technologies. They don't do so well at changing human nature.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#437

Post by scardine »

samstave wrote: post #354
c22 wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstand, I suggest creating a self reliant population actively living below ground (or at the bottom of the ocean). They have to be able to survive indefinitely without help from the surface, but so would a martian colony to weather an ELE.

Do these populations currently exist? Or are you suggesting we build them? Have you looked into or thought about "breakaway civilization"?

I would say some nuclear submarines qualify.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#438

Post by SocratesV »

banach wrote: post #106

I think that, before colonizing other planets, we should start by realizing that Earth can easily sustain human kind for the foreseeable future, given some pretty modest tweaks to our way of life (compared to "going multi-planetary" that is). If we start valuing quality over novelty, stop eating animal-based foods and re-organize to live closer to where we work, we can stop the consumption and that is taxing our ecos…

Going interplanetary is not so much because of Earth not being sustainable but more about survival of the species: extinction level events on Earth (and not talking about us making it a wasteland, but rather non-anthropogenic in origin ones) will be less likely to terminate our species.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#439

Post by ccozan »

ajnin wrote: post #206
ajuc wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand ambient temperature superconductors are possible there :)

That might be a way to fight the cosmic rays : deflect them with strong magnetic fields generated by large superconductive coils.

This idea is highly underrated!

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#440

Post by ekianjo »

pmoriarty wrote: post #222
gulpahum wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! That's why I think we should keep building better AI. It'll be AI, which will be traveling out to the stars, not humans. We could send a probe to a star and once it reaches it, we could simply beam the AI using a transmitter to the probe. Once AI has done its work there, it can be beamed back to Earth (it there is need for that). Build a network of probes and AI can travel between stars at light speed!

Creation of AI is not without its own risks to humanity.

Not sure what you mean. If we create sentient AI, why dont you consider them to be as human as their creators? It's a matter of philosophy in the end.
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