Live data from Hacker News

India is displaying classic signs that foreshadow fascism

qz.com

31–40 of 85 posts

Re: India is displaying classic signs that foreshadow fascism

#31
post #6

“These features cannot be organised into a system; many of them contradict each other and are also typical of other kinds of despotism or fanaticism. But it is enough that one of them be present to allow fascism to coagulate around it.” Umberto Eco is a smart guy but that essay is pretty silly. Fascism: anywhere, everywhere, and you can tell it's coming by any number of contradictory and non-definite phenomena.

It is a feature, not a bug, of fascism that it tolerates contradiction and does not care about constructing a coherent picture of the world. Truth is irrelevant and aesthetics are fungible. Fascism is unlike more sophisticated totalitarian ideologies like Marxism-Leninism. Umberto Eco's points are a summary of nucleation points for fascism: tendencies in society that can be the starting point for the process of fascist development. I think this is the best you can do in such a short essay. Eco's comparison to Wittgenstein's game is apt. "You know it when you see it".

If I were to try to grasp fascism from a different angle and how it relates to other totalitarian tendencies I would characterize it by the social class that puts it into power. The middle class has been the historical base of power for fascism. The points Eco makes are quite resonant amongst middle class people in many countries in particular the downwardly mobile middle class who feel like they are being cheated out of something they are entitled to. That is the mechanism by which fascism takes hold.

In contrast, Marxism-Leninism is primarily concerned with the proletariat and intelligentsia. Maoism is primarily concerned with the peasantry. Really, you can identify a political ideology without looking too closely at its details by examining how it goes about class struggle: its implementation as an actual political movement and not an abstract set of ideas.

Re: India is displaying classic signs that foreshadow fascism

#33

Modi isn't inspired by Nazis, neither is he an anti-Muslim. The author is just making a big deal of small things and quoting things out of context. "Protesting students?- Anti-nationalist". Yeah except the student was protesting against the hanging of a cruel terrorist. "Appeal to social frustration" - makes no sense. India is special in this case in no way. "Craves heroic death" - We do make a big deal when someone…

> The author is just making a big deal of small things and quoting things out of context. .. and that's exactly what people should do to make sure we don't repeat the mistakes of the past. Ignoring the seemingly small things is what leads to much bigger issues. History has taught us this again and again. It's not a pointless rant but a careful warning of what can happen. Let me guess. Whatever dangers the author expo…

Let me get this straight: I'm not a supporter of BJP. They are an alt-right Hindu organisation as the author says (however the notion that they're inspired by Nazis is laughable) and they're probably sexist too.

And the author does not 'expose' anything that is threatening to any 'communities' in India. He's just calling the citizens of India fascists in his high-on-vocabulary rant. He is also twisting and distorting Eco's points to suit what India is now.

I wasn't addressing the author's claims of a fascist India, I was merely pointing out how he falsely pictured Modi (who, in my opinion, is a great leader, atleast relative to the previous 5).

Re: India is displaying classic signs that foreshadow fascism

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The author is just making a big deal of small things and quoting things out of context. .. and that's exactly what people should do to make sure we don't repeat the mistakes of the past. Ignoring the seemingly small things is what leads to much bigger issues. History has taught us this again and again. It's not a pointless rant but a careful warning of what can happen. Let me guess. Whatever dangers the author expo…

Let me get this straight: I'm not a supporter of BJP. They are an alt-right Hindu organisation as the author says (however the notion that they're inspired by Nazis is laughable) and they're probably sexist too. And the author does not 'expose' anything that is threatening to any 'communities' in India. He's just calling the citizens of India fascists in his high-on-vocabulary rant. He is also twisting and distorting…

OK

Re: India is displaying classic signs that foreshadow fascism

#36
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this a lot recently. 'identity politics' is an odd thing to accuse the left of. While the right continually fights to disadvantage groups of people (or keep them disadvantaged), they claim the left is focusing too much on those groups when they fight back. I'm sure that if they had not been trying to hard to paint slaves not as people, but as chattel, the slave owners in the past would have called abolition…

you really need to study up on it. It is not about trying to disadvantage groups, it is all about using the identity of a group to defend any actions or positions they take. Worse is when it is applied to candidates for office because every disagreement with that candidate is taken instead as an attack on them because of their race, religion, sex, and orientation. It is a shameless exploitation that the left has cham…

I know nothing of Indian politics but in the US would you not classify the infamous "southern strategy " the bedrock of the right's political philosophy that has been exploited since the 60's.

Re: India is displaying classic signs that foreshadow fascism

#37
Seems like HN people has a lot of Pro Congress people in them. How long are you gonna keep the narrative of that one riot and say Modi did that and sweep away hundreds of bloodbath across India under various Leftist and "Secular" party ruled states. I think it's not very romantic to report these facts in international media. God these self declared Liberals are everywhere, from New York Times, CNN, BBC, Huffington Post, all you need is to show that Hindus and anything coming out of India is Barbaric and must be eradicated. It would be good if HN keeps out of politics, and specially anything related to India.

Re: India is displaying classic signs that foreshadow fascism

#38

Judging by this article and others, "alt-right" seems to be turning into another way of saying "politics I don't like and wish weren't taken seriously" - not that it ever referred to any particularly coherent movement in the first place, but those in the media can't seem to further dilute the label quickly enough, and even those who formerly adopted it seem to be starting to move away. As for the actual subject matte…

>Judging by this article and others, "alt-right" seems to be turning into another way of saying "politics I don't like and wish weren't taken seriously" - not that it ever referred to any particularly coherent movement in the first place, but those in the media can't seem to further dilute the label quickly enough, and even those who formerly adopted it seem to be starting to move away.

The term "alt-right" was coined by Richard Spencer and initially referred specifically to his paleoconservative brand of ethno-nationalism. Now it is a broader term, yes, but it's meaning is generally intact.

Re: India is displaying classic signs that foreshadow fascism

#39
post #21

Most external people forget that India is closer to the model of Europe with a united monetary policy than a US or China or any individual countries it is compared to. Each province is big enough to be a country in itself, has significant power and provincial politics are as diverse as the spectrum of governments across Europe (there's actually an elected communist government in a province). The ruling coalition nati…

> it's really funny to see outside columnists trying to paint broad generalizations of Indian politics. It is anything but funny. In ways similar to the rhetoric "Should everyone else go to Pakistan?".

Funny. Rhetorics are being referred to call a state "fascist".

Re: India is displaying classic signs that foreshadow fascism

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh man! The Big Lebowski reference is 200% accurate. On a serious note though, it feels almost certain that the Modi Government is going to lead India into another bloodshed, sooner or later. I hope not but that sinking feeling just doesn't go away given his track record.

It's already happened with the lynchings, killings and sporadic riots, but at scale of India, it just doesn't leave a big enough mark. It's kind of sad really. India rationalizes the most horrific acts of humanity, shrugs and moves on.

Another way of looking at it is every war before 1800 took place with a smaller global population than India has right now. Yes, a lot of bad things happen in India, but this is partly because a lot of things happen in India.
Post reply on HN