Fidel Castro has died • Hacker News Board

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#261

Post by hal9000xp » Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 8:50 AM UTC

wycx wrote: post #239

hal9000xp wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haiti on the bottom of economy freedom rating [1] and corruption rating [2]. Haiti has huge anti-free market red tape and rampant corruption. It means that Haiti did declare a war against free markets. Free market economy is possible only in country with strong property rights, rule of law with no corruption, and no red tape. All countries which adopted these principles are rich and have very high standard of living.…

*no red tape Those three words are where things get complicated. In a general sense red tape is the difference between a laissez faire economy and a free market economy, if you mean government regulation when you say red tape. Though by red tape you might also mean anti-competitve regulations implemented at the behest of a firm or sector of the economy. In that case it is still very important to acknowledge that free…

By red-tape I mean anti-market/anti-business laws. I was born in Uzbekistan, I know how system works in such countries. You can't do business there without making bribes. Countries like Uzbekistan intentionally create such laws which is impossible to follow and stay in business. Red tape decrease competition, increase favouritism which leads to pro-government monopolies which keep control over big chunk of market.

Free markets do require very strong laws but these laws should be:

1) In favour of strong property rights;

2) Equally friendly to new enterprises/small business/big business;

3) Lean, not over-complicated;

Basically role of the government is to keep highly competitive economic enthronement without favouritism.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#262

Post by usaphp » Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 8:53 AM UTC

hal9000xp wrote: post #161

usaphp wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at counties that did not declare war against free markets. Look at mexico, look at Haiti, or some other Caribbean countries, most of them are doing much worse than Cuba. Communism/socialism disease did not harm China that much ether. Embargo is what hurt Cuba

Haiti on the bottom of economy freedom rating [1] and corruption rating [2]. Haiti has huge anti-free market red tape and rampant corruption. It means that Haiti did declare a war against free markets. Free market economy is possible only in country with strong property rights, rule of law with no corruption, and no red tape. All countries which adopted these principles are rich and have very high standard of living.…

> "I think 99.999% of folks who like communism/socialism don't understand what free market capitalism IS."

It's hard to build a free market when you have an embargo and a huge pressure from the outside world

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#263

Post by geezerjay » Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 8:55 AM UTC

gragas wrote: post #53

djsumdog wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The western view of Castro is painted with decades of terrible propaganda. The Cuban people have been placed in their situation, not primarily by the Soviets or Castro, but by the American Hegemony and its unending empire across the globe. Many central and south American heads of state have tried to stand up to that empire, and many have died in plane crashes. Hugh Chavez, demonized in American media, put pieces of t…

They've been isolated for like half a century; they've had more than enough time to implement whatever form of government they want. It's clear that Castro's communism doesn't work. The US didn't cause this. They tried to stop it.

> They've been isolated for like half a century; they've had more than enough time to implement whatever form of government they want. It's clear that Castro's communism doesn't work.

If that wasn't obvious by itself, a brief glimpse at Venezuela and what Chavez/Maduro's regime has accomplished should dispel any remaining doubt.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#264

Post by IslaDeEncanta » Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 8:58 AM UTC

friendlygrammar wrote: post #34

IslaDeEncanta wrote: post #31

The Cuban Revolution lives on. Rest in power, comrade Fidel.

Nah, the Cuban revolution is dead. Get ready for A. Further integrations with the capitalist US or B. Fall of the Cuban economy because they are definitely not getting support from venezuela which propped up their economy in the first place.

Cuba is basically an autarky, for all intents and purposes, so they're not going anywhere on that front, and I think Diaz-Canel will help to steer Cuba away from liberalism/revisionism. But I've been wrong before.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#265

Post by mynameisvlad » Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 9:00 AM UTC

friendlygrammar wrote: post #154

coldtea wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He condemned an entire nation to poverty! That's more because of the embargo than anything Cubans did. And even given that, they do way better than most latin american "free" nations. > His most notable achievement with regards to Africa was sending soldiers to extend the life of wars. Let's not go into which country, besides Germany and USSR, started more wars, meddled in more places, held more peopls down by inst…

>That's more because of the embargo than anything Cubans did I just have to ask, does communism require trading with capitalist nations to be successful? Because there are many nations under embargo by the US that are significantly more prosperous. But clearly, when Marx was talking about a communist revolution he clearly meant that you should allow yourself to be exploited by your nearest capitalist neighbor.

> does communism require trading with capitalist nations to be successful?

You keep on going back to this. No, they don't. But an island nation does. It's ridiculously hard to produce literally all the things your country needs when it's 100x smaller than the US, and it's even harder when you have no land borders. Trading with other nations becomes ridiculously important at that point.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#266

Post by rorykoehler » Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 9:03 AM UTC

gragas wrote: post #60

matt4077 wrote: post #25

He has certainly led one of the most exciting lives of our times... And despite his flaws (and/or crimes against humanity) I can't help but wonder how Cuba would have faired under different leadership. Looking at the next-island neighbors in Haiti, or any number of comparable African countries, it seems the Cubans got the better deal. Just one example: life expectancy is 15 years higher than Haiti, and actually even…

>with a superpower fixated on killing you (and ruining you economy) next door Look at how awful the quality of life in Cuba is today. Look at its people's lack of basic freedoms. Look at its awful economy. The US tried to save Cuba from itself.

The problem with the US model is it leaves no room for other/different ideas. It is all consuming. Now that it has no competition to keep itself in check it is well on the way to consuming itself.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#267

Post by sergiotapia » Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 9:03 AM UTC

I live in Miami and streets were full of pots and pans being banged around. Some fireworks too.

A lot of cubans and venezolanos are my neighbors, and there is whistling going on.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#268

Post by sooheon » Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 9:04 AM UTC

sssilver wrote: post #204

MarkMc wrote: post #149

Castro's poor judgement led directly to the Cuban Missile Crisis. Afterwards John F Kennedy estimated there was between a one-third and one-half chance that it would have escalated to nuclear war [1]. That seems like an underestimate considering that we now know some of the missiles were fully operational [2] Yet today it's difficult for most people to appreciate the extreme threat and terror of nuclear weapons in th…

Wait, I thought it was Kennedy's poor judgement that "led directly to the Cuban Missile Crisis" by placing nukes on the USSR border?

I wonder if your parent has an answer to this. It seems the US putting weapons in threatening positions to other countries would be justified somehow.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#269

Post by bzbarsky » Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 9:04 AM UTC

NhanH wrote: post #190

edblarney wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The western view of Castro is painted with decades of terrible propaganda." + Fidel does not allow his people to leave, with the threat of punishment. + Fidel does not allow democracy + He does not allow any real internet access + Fidel puts political dissidents in jail + Fidel's private Army own's 85% of the economy + Cuban's live in relative poverty + Only the US 'embargos' Cuba, they are free to trade with 167 ot…

Half of those you listed are just normal characteristics of communist state, to argue on those would be to argue on whether communism is "evil" in comparison to capitalism or not. This is very much not self-evident as you seem to assume from your post (I'm not interested in said discussion, just pointing out how biased looking your comment reads to me). Just to put a concrete point, Per capita GDP of Cuba is 4 times…

> Just to put a concrete point, Per capita GDP of Cuba is 4 times the largest democracy country (India).

I'm seeing it at closer to 3x based on " rel="nofollow">http://www.tradingeconomics.com/india/gdp-per-capita> and " rel="nofollow">http://www.tradingeconomics.com/cuba/gdp-per-capita>.

But even granting 4x, notice that it was 5x back in 1970 (which is as early as the Cuba chart in this dataset goes). And if you look at numbers from right before the Cuban revolution, it was about 6x...

Of course the embargo, the Soviet subsidies, the removal of those subsidies, and the sugar price crash in the 90s make it hard to make much practical sense of Cuban GDP per capita and its evolution.

I _would_ like to respond to your "normal characteristics" point, though. The "people aren't allowed to leave" your country _is_ a normal characteristic of communist states, but that doesn't make it OK. And I would argue that it's not necessarily inherent to "communism", and _is_ "evil" in pretty basic terms: it violates the right of freedom of movement. See also UN declaration of human rights, article 13. I understand the practical reasons such a restriction is instituted, and I can even make some moral arguments for it (e.g. owing a debt to the society that provided your education and hence not being allowed to take your skills elsewhere), but I still don't think the outcome is OK.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#270

Post by pavanred » Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 9:10 AM UTC

mzw_mzw wrote: post #212

enraged_camel wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it can. Cuba is an island nation and relies on trade to acquire the vast majority of the goods those of us in the West take for granted. Block that trade and you basically stifle all economic growth. From wikipedia: >>Cuba produces sugarcane, tobacco, citrus, coffee, rice, potatoes, beans and livestock.[2] As of 2015 Cuba imported about 70-80% of its food.[51] and 80-84% of the food it rations to the public…

And of course the Communist economic system -- the one that has led to immiseration and collapse everywhere it has been tried, all over the world -- has nothing to do with this. Must be the embargo!

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