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Fidel Castro has died

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Re: Fidel Castro has died

#81

Post by sillysaurus3 »

friendlygrammar wrote: post #62
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible to comment civilly on difficult topics. It just requires that you choose to. HN is a place to gratify one's intellectual curiosity. Part of the fabric of the community is that we engage in a civil, substantive way. There are various topics that don't always make that easy, but it's important that we try.

I just have to ask, at what point does praise becomes uncivil? Is it when you praise Fidel who has stifled freedom of speech and condemned his people to a life of economic stagnation? What about Chavez who has condemned his people to starvation? Or is it praising Kim Jong Un? Or is it praising Hitler? Or is it praising Stalin? Or is it praising the KKK? There is only 1 ideology responsible for killing more than 100 m…

I sense good intentions from you. Thank you for that. Let me try to explain.

If you're curious about the philosophy here, have a look at https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

The decisive difference between HN and other sites is that here, it almost doesn't matter what you believe, so long as you express your beliefs in a thoughtful and constructive way. You can still challenge beliefs you disagree with. But if you're looking to express outrage or if you're showing up to do ideological battle, you should be aware that it won't be tolerated here.

Please understand, HN has been around for about a decade. The community is the sole distinction between here and other sites. And as soon as the community consists of people commenting in anger rather than in thoughtful critique, the more thoughtful people will move elsewhere. We have to make it a priority to defend ourselves from that outcome.

Try to have the spirit of being among trusted friends, searching for the truth in a topic. It's not easy, especially when someone says something controversial. But HN is all about good conversation. That doesn't mean you have to be nice, but it means you have to be thoughtful and substantive. It's almost always better to say nothing than to convey anger.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#82

Post by coldtea »

gragas wrote: post #36
friendlygrammar wrote: post #29

.

I agree. It's absolutely insane to side with Castro. Even if you agree with his political philosophy, there is overwhelming objective evidence of how awful it is: - Cuban economy - Cuban quality of life - basic Cuban freedoms (like supporting parties other than the one in power)

>- Cuban economy, Cuban quality of life

Both are way better than most Latin American countries that US has meddled with and have friendly terms with. And they would be even better if it wasn't for the embargo and the whole cold war play against Cuba.

>- basic Cuban freedoms (like supporting parties other than the one in power)

Like being able to support two parties that alternate in power, like you are free to do in the US?

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#83

Post by Stratoscope »

I was fascinated by Fidel's choice of attire when he appeared before the Communist Party congress in April.

I think I've only seen him in the green military uniform. But at the congress he wore an Adidas jacket!

It would be interesting to know the story behind that.

Edit: Naturally, a half hour after posting this, I realized there was probably a way to find out...

https://www.google.com/search?q=fidel+castro+adidas

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#84

Post by gragas »

wallace_f wrote: post #61
gragas wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. It's absolutely insane to side with Castro. Even if you agree with his political philosophy, there is overwhelming objective evidence of how awful it is: - Cuban economy - Cuban quality of life - basic Cuban freedoms (like supporting parties other than the one in power)

> basic Cuban freedoms (like supporting parties other than the one in power) To be fair in the US there are also attacks for supporting political parties. Yes it's a different degree of extremism entirely. For example the terrorist/riot/civil activist group (whatever you want to call them) By Any Means Necessary violently attacked white nationalist parties (they claim they're not white nationalists, but media says th…

Claiming Cuba and the US are comparable in the respect is absurd. Castro killed thousands of his own civilians to stay in power. Here in the US, you can literally disavow the president (c.f. #NotMyPresident) without any consequence.

>To be fair in the US there are also attacks for supporting political parties.

There is a HUGE difference between your government killing you for your political beliefs and a member of the opposing political party "attacking" you for your political beliefs. People break the law all the time. It's a whole other level of unfair when the government murders you.

I would never trade the freedoms I have in the US for the "freedoms" seen in Cuba.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#85

Post by friendlygrammar »

wallace_f wrote: post #41
gragas wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was also an evil dictator who silenced any and all opposition. And you can't argue that his political philosophy works either---just look at Cuba today.

> you can't argue that his political philosophy works either---just look at Cuba today. As someone who studied the subject formally, don't place maximum weight on the success and failures of the (statistically insignificant) rise and fall of modern nation states. This is a very far cry from a controlled experiment to begin with, anyways. Don't read into that too much. I'm not saying mainstream economics doesn't have…

>it's a far cry from a scientific fact, which it seems like not just this comment, but a lot of us in the west (even mainstream academic economics) sell the idea as.

Centrally planning an economy is an NP complete problem. Marxism is dumb and if any would be socialist on this forum can explain to me how we as a society can retain the benefits yielded by capitalism without the use of capital and how socialism of such a form can exist without a centrally planned economy, I'm all ears.

Marxism has failed and failed and then failed again, and then it also led to the deaths of 100 million.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#86

Post by mememachine »

coldtea wrote: post #77
edblarney wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a disturbing position. I don't doubt that his doctors may have helped you. However, the man has committed grievous crimes, keeps 'his people' in abject poverty, on an 'island prison'. More than 85% of the economy is in the control of the military - his private Army. "Up until today, Cuba still sends significant numbers of doctors to remote African areas and provide expensive medical procedures for free." This…

> However, the man has committed grievous crimes Way less crimes than those who accuse him. Never sprayed Vietnamese with Agent Orange or napalms for one, never dropped nuclear bombs on civilians, never supported Pinochet et co, doesn't have 25% of the world's incarcerated in just 4% of the global population, and lots of other things besides. > keeps 'his people' in abject poverty A 40+ years embargo has something to…

do you see anyone defending those responsible for the crimes you listed?

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#87

Post by liquidise »

edblarney wrote: post #54
chirau wrote: post #24

As an African, I'd say the world has lost one of the most influential leaders of the past century. To pretend here, for me, as if he was cruel to our continent would be both ungrateful and untrue. The man offered free training and medical school for most of our African doctors, he harbored, trained and armed many a guerilla group in our pursuit of independence from colonization. Up until today, Cuba still sends signi…

This is a disturbing position. I don't doubt that his doctors may have helped you. However, the man has committed grievous crimes, keeps 'his people' in abject poverty, on an 'island prison'. More than 85% of the economy is in the control of the military - his private Army. "Up until today, Cuba still sends significant numbers of doctors to remote African areas and provide expensive medical procedures for free." This…

> It's sad that people should hold such a tyrant in such esteem

What is sad is how quickly people reach for a wide, monotone brush they like to paint things with lately. As an american, i have heard roughly your description of castro my entire life. To hear another version, from someone living a life in a continent i have never visited is both refreshing and educational.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#88

Post by edblarney »

justicezyx wrote: post #72
edblarney wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Cuba has been under embargos for decades. " Cuba has been embargoed only by the USA. Cuba can buy absolutely anything it needs - even American products - simply by going through any one of a myriad of interlocutors: Mexico, Canada, Jamaica, Venezuela. There is absolutely no forgiving Fidel's cruel dictatorship.

US embargo means a lot, not just unable to buy stuff easily. Let's not pretend that US was not the world cop. The embargo definitely has negative impact on Cuba economy.

I fully sympathize with that fact and it's correct.

Just as I understand there is some Cuban goodwill with respect to the doctors they send abroad - and early on Fidel's creation of better literacy/healthcare programs.

But remember this: Fidel worked with the Russians to put nuclear weapons 40 miles away from the USA - and created a crazy situation - the closest the world has ever been to full blown nuclear war. That was this man's hubris - he nearly helped put the world on fire. That kind of existential threat is not easily forgotten. Point being: the 'embargo' is 100% Fidel's fault, and he could have easily taken steps to have it removed, but his ego would not allow it.

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#89

Post by coldtea »

friendlygrammar wrote: post #35
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have been repeatedly breaking the site guidelines in this thread. Please comment civilly. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

How am I going to comment civilly? This is a dictator and there are people praising him here! WTF. This might be easy for you to comment on when you didn't lose your entire life because of this man but people have.

>This might be easy for you to comment on when you didn't lose your entire life because of this man but people have.

Tons of people have lost their entire life because of US actions. And in places the US had no role to be at all, to boot.

It's beyond double standards...

Re: Fidel Castro has died

#90

Post by mememachine »

liquidise wrote: post #87
edblarney wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a disturbing position. I don't doubt that his doctors may have helped you. However, the man has committed grievous crimes, keeps 'his people' in abject poverty, on an 'island prison'. More than 85% of the economy is in the control of the military - his private Army. "Up until today, Cuba still sends significant numbers of doctors to remote African areas and provide expensive medical procedures for free." This…

> It's sad that people should hold such a tyrant in such esteem What is sad is how quickly people reach for a wide, monotone brush they like to paint things with lately. As an american, i have heard roughly your description of castro my entire life. To hear another version, from someone living a life in a continent i have never visited is both refreshing and educational.

as he demonstrated the version from the other continent was uninformed
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