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China About to Start $35B of Silk Road Plan in Pakistan

bloomberg.com

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Re: China About to Start $35B of Silk Road Plan in Pakistan

#41

Post by eternalban »

nikcub wrote: post #17

Another traditional US ally re-aligning itself between the two major spheres of influence. The balance will tip further in China's favor as the USA recedes further from global development. What's interesting is if you look at the parallel international institutions that China are developing that will compete with the IMF et al, many of the partners are traditional and very close allies of the United States. For ex. w…

> Another traditional US ally re-aligning itself

China has been an ally of Pakistan for a long time.

> parallel international institutions that [the Chinese] are developing that will compete with the IMF

http://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2016/09/29/AM16-NA093016...

Re: China About to Start $35B of Silk Road Plan in Pakistan

#42

Post by ethbro »

binarray2000 wrote: post #27
nikcub wrote: post #17

Another traditional US ally re-aligning itself between the two major spheres of influence. The balance will tip further in China's favor as the USA recedes further from global development. What's interesting is if you look at the parallel international institutions that China are developing that will compete with the IMF et al, many of the partners are traditional and very close allies of the United States. For ex. w…

While your analysis is true, it only describes the effects which have lead to today's situation. Here are a few causes: * In late 80's US empire has definitely thrown international law above the board by organizing color revolutions, destabilizing other countries and waging wars * US empire and its vassals (other NATO members) leave a trail of blood where ever they show up * Officially, US military - despite its huge…

> in 2016 USA is arguably the most hated country in the world

Let's agree to disagree on this, based on the fact that there are a number of countries with active civil wars and/or genocides.

Re: China About to Start $35B of Silk Road Plan in Pakistan

#43

Post by ethbro »

hd4 wrote: post #32
kristianov wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Pakistan is important to US because of terrorism in Afghanistan, at the same time Pakistan is important to China because of threat of India.

And before Afghanistan, the Soviet Union. And as you say, the mutual interest in containing the threat posed by India. If anything, Trump courting India as much as he has been doing, at the same time talking tough against China means we have 'interesting times' ahead.

From my perspective, India always seemed like a better ally to the American people, Pakistan to the American military/intelligence branches.

Re: China About to Start $35B of Silk Road Plan in Pakistan

#44

Post by spiderfarmer »

binarray2000 wrote: post #27
nikcub wrote: post #17

Another traditional US ally re-aligning itself between the two major spheres of influence. The balance will tip further in China's favor as the USA recedes further from global development. What's interesting is if you look at the parallel international institutions that China are developing that will compete with the IMF et al, many of the partners are traditional and very close allies of the United States. For ex. w…

While your analysis is true, it only describes the effects which have lead to today's situation. Here are a few causes: * In late 80's US empire has definitely thrown international law above the board by organizing color revolutions, destabilizing other countries and waging wars * US empire and its vassals (other NATO members) leave a trail of blood where ever they show up * Officially, US military - despite its huge…

> America’s overall image around the world remains largely positive. Across the nations surveyed (excluding the U.S.), a median of 69% hold a favorable opinion of the U.S., while just 24% express an unfavorable view. However, there is significant variation among regions and countries.[0]

I think we can agree the US often acts like a douchebag and that it has a lot of passionate haters, but the fact is that there are not that many great countries in the world.

It's true that the US is not number #1 in a lot areas and I really believe that's a good thing. The whole world should improve, not just the US. Inequality is at the root of a lot of evil in this world.

[0] http://www.pewglobal.org/2015/06/23/1-americas-global-image/

Re: China About to Start $35B of Silk Road Plan in Pakistan

#45

Post by jgalt212 »

binarray2000 wrote: post #27
nikcub wrote: post #17

Another traditional US ally re-aligning itself between the two major spheres of influence. The balance will tip further in China's favor as the USA recedes further from global development. What's interesting is if you look at the parallel international institutions that China are developing that will compete with the IMF et al, many of the partners are traditional and very close allies of the United States. For ex. w…

While your analysis is true, it only describes the effects which have lead to today's situation. Here are a few causes: * In late 80's US empire has definitely thrown international law above the board by organizing color revolutions, destabilizing other countries and waging wars * US empire and its vassals (other NATO members) leave a trail of blood where ever they show up * Officially, US military - despite its huge…

I didn't know that Noam Chomsky posted on HN.

Re: China About to Start $35B of Silk Road Plan in Pakistan

#46

Post by saiya-jin »

ethbro wrote: post #42
binarray2000 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While your analysis is true, it only describes the effects which have lead to today's situation. Here are a few causes: * In late 80's US empire has definitely thrown international law above the board by organizing color revolutions, destabilizing other countries and waging wars * US empire and its vassals (other NATO members) leave a trail of blood where ever they show up * Officially, US military - despite its huge…

> in 2016 USA is arguably the most hated country in the world Let's agree to disagree on this, based on the fact that there are a number of countries with active civil wars and/or genocides.

i think you are missing the point of the parent - not many people care about genocide going on somewhere in the woods as long as it's not dangerously nearby (nothing to be proud of, but a natural part of being human these days). I don't know anybody who would literally 'hate' Rwanda, Burma, South Sudan or your former/current place of pick.

now for rather unfortunate meddling into internal affairs of a given state - there isn't a single country in this world that can say US didn't try to f__k them over one way or the other. Not-a-single-one. You may not like this fact, but that's truth. Now we can say something similar, maybe to lesser exent, and maybe with more evil tone, about Russia, or in other ways about England/Dutch/French/Spanish/Belgian/German/and so on for the past, but for pure hate, US made it damn too easy to be hated.

don't take this personally - I have much higher issues with Russia in this regard, the country that invaded my home in 1968, killed quite a few, brought more repressions and stayed for 21 years. But US ain't some saint 'good' guy, far from that.

Re: China About to Start $35B of Silk Road Plan in Pakistan

#47

Post by saiya-jin »

_nedR wrote: post #30
hd4 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traditional? Not really. The UK or France could be considered traditional allies. Pakistan was more of a conveniently-located 'strategic partner'. I say this as someone of Pakistani origin. The people of Pakistan are hugely skeptical and wary of this 'alliance' and have long felt they have been used, there is deep resentment, so it's not even slightly surprising they are looking to align themselves with those whose r…

True. But the relationship has spanned many decades into the cold war, with Pakistan leaning towards the US and India leaning towards Russia. There was little trust or love or shared values involved, but it was still one borne of necessity, that had endured a lot of bumps (to say the least) along the way.

this was an idiotic decision by US - India has much more common with western democracies compared to Pakistan. It's also the biggest democracy in the world, since it's humble beginnings.

I presume US couldn't swallow that somebody like to be rather independent though and bow into submission during cold war, ie 'if you're not with us you are against us' mentality

Re: China About to Start $35B of Silk Road Plan in Pakistan

#48

Post by saiya-jin »

hd4 wrote: post #32
kristianov wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Pakistan is important to US because of terrorism in Afghanistan, at the same time Pakistan is important to China because of threat of India.

And before Afghanistan, the Soviet Union. And as you say, the mutual interest in containing the threat posed by India. If anything, Trump courting India as much as he has been doing, at the same time talking tough against China means we have 'interesting times' ahead.

India was never the aggressor, just look at the history. It's Chinese who invaded Indian Himalayan territory and annexed some Indian land. Same with Pakistan - it's them who invaded Indian territory in Kashmir in 1999 in thousands.

It's stupid from Chinese to act like there is already hostility between them, when they could act as partners that have literally 1/3 of global population and dominate the region.

Re: China About to Start $35B of Silk Road Plan in Pakistan

#49

Post by binarray2000 »

ethbro wrote: post #42
binarray2000 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While your analysis is true, it only describes the effects which have lead to today's situation. Here are a few causes: * In late 80's US empire has definitely thrown international law above the board by organizing color revolutions, destabilizing other countries and waging wars * US empire and its vassals (other NATO members) leave a trail of blood where ever they show up * Officially, US military - despite its huge…

> in 2016 USA is arguably the most hated country in the world Let's agree to disagree on this, based on the fact that there are a number of countries with active civil wars and/or genocides.

With great power comes great responsibility. Currently, no other country has that much power (things I mentioned in the parent) and does so much harm. Yes, regionally, there are conflicts and hatred/dislike between groups, regions or countries. Yet, US is feared, disliked, even hated - exactly for the misuse of the power.

Re: China About to Start $35B of Silk Road Plan in Pakistan

#50

Post by tiatia »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #44
binarray2000 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While your analysis is true, it only describes the effects which have lead to today's situation. Here are a few causes: * In late 80's US empire has definitely thrown international law above the board by organizing color revolutions, destabilizing other countries and waging wars * US empire and its vassals (other NATO members) leave a trail of blood where ever they show up * Officially, US military - despite its huge…

> America’s overall image around the world remains largely positive. Across the nations surveyed (excluding the U.S.), a median of 69% hold a favorable opinion of the U.S., while just 24% express an unfavorable view. However, there is significant variation among regions and countries.[0] I think we can agree the US often acts like a douchebag and that it has a lot of passionate haters, but the fact is that there are…

The US is probably the nicest and most responsible super power ever.

A super power like the Roman empire would have won the Afghanistan war for sure. But in a different way.

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