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Italian or British? Writer solves riddle of spaghetti bolognese

theguardian.com

11–20 of 41 posts

Re: Italian or British? Writer solves riddle of spaghetti bolognese

#11
post #6

Even if not Italian, why on Earth would spaghetti bolognese be British? I've eaten them in many countries around Europe...

that's right, they are american. Sicilian immigrants could barely afford beef in their native Sicily, so when they started having a little more money in their pockets in America, they started adding beef to everything. Which is where spaghetti with meatballs comes from as well. No italian has ever had spaghetti with meatballs.

Re: Italian or British? Writer solves riddle of spaghetti bolognese

#12
So if the official research states that you can vary the sauce to include oregano, basil, and garlic, optionally adding various cheeses, and you can vary the pasta between tagliatelle (fresh egg pasta) and dried spaghetti (and you can vary the name between spaghetti al ragù, spaghetti bolognese or spaghetti alla bolognese) then that's really a pretty wide range of dishes.

Interesting that restaurants focused on serving the dish with tagliatelle, in part because fresh pasta cooked faster ... fast food, not high cuisine. White tablecloths eat your heart out!

In the same spirit, I wonder if we will create a tagliatelle version for Infinite Food one day? http://8-food.com/

Re: Italian or British? Writer solves riddle of spaghetti bolognese

#13
post #6

Even if not Italian, why on Earth would spaghetti bolognese be British? I've eaten them in many countries around Europe...

that's right, they are american. Sicilian immigrants could barely afford beef in their native Sicily, so when they started having a little more money in their pockets in America, they started adding beef to everything. Which is where spaghetti with meatballs comes from as well. No italian has ever had spaghetti with meatballs.

[deleted]

Re: Italian or British? Writer solves riddle of spaghetti bolognese

#14
post #6

Even if not Italian, why on Earth would spaghetti bolognese be British? I've eaten them in many countries around Europe...

that's right, they are american. Sicilian immigrants could barely afford beef in their native Sicily, so when they started having a little more money in their pockets in America, they started adding beef to everything. Which is where spaghetti with meatballs comes from as well. No italian has ever had spaghetti with meatballs.

Spaghetti bologese != Spaghetti meatballs

Re: Italian or British? Writer solves riddle of spaghetti bolognese

#15
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

alla = "a type of seasoning/condiment/cooking" Examples: Pasta alla carbonara Pizza alla marinara Trenette al pesto

Let's note that grammatically 'alla', 'al', etc. is 'at/in/towards' + 'the', but in this idiomatic use gives the meaning in the parent comment.

Yes and no, it is "worse" than that.

In this particular use (for bolognese or pescatora, amatriciana, etc.) "a/al/alla" means "in the style of", BUT when it is pasta al ragù (al pesto, al pomodoro, etc., i.e. other main ingredients) the "a/al/alla" means "with".

And we have also our own exceptions, one says "Pappardelle sul cinghiale" (pappardelle is yet another type of pasta), literally "pappardelle on the hog", BUT you don't have the "a" in "spaghetti aglio e olio (e peperoncino)".

As a side note a "ragù" has nothing to do with the (usually horrible) tomato sauce that is used for "spaghetti bolognese" outside Italy.

Re: Italian or British? Writer solves riddle of spaghetti bolognese

#16
I've always found it interesting how native American foods (tomatoes, potatoes, peanuts, chilis, corn, strawberry, pineapple, etc.) have been integrated into "traditional" cuisines around the world. Italian spaghetti sauce or Thai peanut sauce, etc. have only been available for a few hundred years max... Still a lot, but some other traditions go back millennia.

Re: Italian or British? Writer solves riddle of spaghetti bolognese

#17

I've always found it interesting how native American foods (tomatoes, potatoes, peanuts, chilis, corn, strawberry, pineapple, etc.) have been integrated into "traditional" cuisines around the world. Italian spaghetti sauce or Thai peanut sauce, etc. have only been available for a few hundred years max... Still a lot, but some other traditions go back millennia.

A lot of really old recipes, say, those dating to the roman era or even only the renaissance, are very unpalatable for modern tastes.

Re: Italian or British? Writer solves riddle of spaghetti bolognese

#18

I've always found it interesting how native American foods (tomatoes, potatoes, peanuts, chilis, corn, strawberry, pineapple, etc.) have been integrated into "traditional" cuisines around the world. Italian spaghetti sauce or Thai peanut sauce, etc. have only been available for a few hundred years max... Still a lot, but some other traditions go back millennia.

Yes this is why I always find it funny when people worry about if a dish is "authentic". To what time period? It seems most peoples concept of authentic is what people were eating in the late 19th/early 20th century. Not long before that, peasants were eating gruel.

Re: Italian or British? Writer solves riddle of spaghetti bolognese

#19

I've always found it interesting how native American foods (tomatoes, potatoes, peanuts, chilis, corn, strawberry, pineapple, etc.) have been integrated into "traditional" cuisines around the world. Italian spaghetti sauce or Thai peanut sauce, etc. have only been available for a few hundred years max... Still a lot, but some other traditions go back millennia.

A lot of really old recipes, say, those dating to the roman era or even only the renaissance, are very unpalatable for modern tastes.

Do you know of any good repository of (as far as we know) accurate recipes from that sort of time? I'd love to be able to cook a Roman dinner one night or something.

Re: Italian or British? Writer solves riddle of spaghetti bolognese

#20
post #6

Even if not Italian, why on Earth would spaghetti bolognese be British? I've eaten them in many countries around Europe...

that's right, they are american. Sicilian immigrants could barely afford beef in their native Sicily, so when they started having a little more money in their pockets in America, they started adding beef to everything. Which is where spaghetti with meatballs comes from as well. No italian has ever had spaghetti with meatballs.

America isn't the only country to have had lots of immigration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italians_in_the_United_Kingdom

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