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Israeli firm can steal phone data in seconds

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Re: Israeli firm can steal phone data in seconds

#101

Post by CamperBob2 »

shadowfiend wrote: post #99
CamperBob2 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one opinion. Asymmetrical warfare amounts to another opinion. The Afghan mujahedeen, the Taliban, Al Qaeda, ISIS, and the Viet Cong can tell you more about that sort of thing. So can various warfighters with more formal credentials, from Sun Tzu Wu to Paul Van Riper. It's hard to fight a guerilla war with tanks, carriers and stealth bombers. Some of those folks will probably outlast the US government at the ra…

If the US government decided to attack its own citizens on American land, I'd expect they wouldn't be too worried about waging a humane war. So perhaps the more educational recent example here is Aleppo. The rebels haven't lost... But the cost is most definitely not heaviest on the Syrian government. As for the Y2K/polio analogy... I'm not really following, to be honest. You make an extraordinary assertion ("guns pre…

I hear what you're saying, don't get me wrong. It sounds like you're in a better position to comment on the situation in Colombia if nothing else. But we're both playing some simplistic hands here. As soon as other players turn a local conflict into a proxy war -- as the Russians and US are in danger of doing in Syria and as the US drug warriors have done in Columbia -- life gets more complicated. Still, I'd argue that you're better off in such situations if you haven't delegated all of the responsibility for protecting yourself and your family and property to a government who may or may not have other interests in mind.

Even the American Revolution was basically a proxy war between England and the continental powers, for that matter. But when the dust settled, you didn't see the French moving in to claim their just rewards. As the apocryphal quote credited to Yamamoto goes, "There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." We were then, as we are now, more trouble to mess with than we're worth.

That's the kind of relationship that many American citizens like to maintain with their own government. I don't see that as a bad thing.

Re: Israeli firm can steal phone data in seconds

#102

Post by defunctirl »

arca_vorago wrote: post #93

On a similar note, back when cell phones were just getting started, I started parsing the ownership of the cell towers. I noticed an unusually high correlation of Israeli companies owning them (back before the phone companies themselves really started investing in them). Now think about the purpose of an imsi catcher/stingray. The Israelis seem to be on the edge of cybersecurity across the board. I know while in Iraq…

Any specific resources/links re: that final comment? Not something I've ever read about, although I could imagine.. Not discrediting your statement, genuinely curious.

Re: Israeli firm can steal phone data in seconds

#103

Post by tastythrowaway2 »

itwaseverything wrote: post #92
CamperBob2 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I understand is that nobody should fear a state monopoly on violence more than the left. What I don't understand is why they don't understand that.

>What I don't understand is why they don't understand that. Propaganda. Miseducation. Appeals to emotion. The usual totalitarian work. But don't think these tactics only work on the "left". We're all being played.

my only regret is that I have but one vote to give. bravo.

Re: Israeli firm can steal phone data in seconds

#104

Post by [deleted] »

itwaseverything wrote: post #92
CamperBob2 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I understand is that nobody should fear a state monopoly on violence more than the left. What I don't understand is why they don't understand that.

>What I don't understand is why they don't understand that. Propaganda. Miseducation. Appeals to emotion. The usual totalitarian work. But don't think these tactics only work on the "left". We're all being played.

[deleted]

Re: Israeli firm can steal phone data in seconds

#105

Post by lisivka »

afthonos wrote: post #98
CamperBob2 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one opinion. Asymmetrical warfare amounts to another opinion. The Afghan mujahedeen, the Taliban, Al Qaeda, ISIS, and the Viet Cong can tell you more about that sort of thing. So can various warfighters with more formal credentials, from Sun Tzu Wu to Paul Van Riper. It's hard to fight a guerilla war with tanks, carriers and stealth bombers. Some of those folks will probably outlast the US government at the ra…

I find the asymmetrical warfare argument…weird. Afghanistan as a nation has been in a state of massive system failure for decades. Is that really the hope guns offer? “If the government goes ballistic, our guns will ensure we end up like Afghanistan”?

What wrong with Afghanistan? They are still free after number of massive invasions.

Re: Israeli firm can steal phone data in seconds

#106

Post by s_m_t »

shadowfiend wrote: post #95
CamperBob2 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even know where to start. But you're going to anyway, right? Do you have any sources on your first claim? I'm not your personal reference librarian, but you might start with a few of the more reader-friendly popular accounts and see where your interests take you. Solzhenitsyn's The Gulag Archipelago is worthwhile; also Milton Mayer's They Thought They Were Free , and perhaps Ma Bo's Blood Red Sunset . The ide…

> All told, you'd have to cite about 100,000,000 civilian gun deaths to catch up with the records set by modern governments who weren't as afraid of their citizens and subjects as they should have been. Yep, the thing that's going to scare the United States government out of killing its citizens is them armed with arsenals of M-16's against their… F-22s, B-52s, carrier groups, and tanks. My goodness, this is an absol…

You should read up on.... well, the war in Afghanistan, the war in Iraq, and the Vietnam war.

Re: Israeli firm can steal phone data in seconds

#107

Post by kbart »

shadowfiend wrote: post #95
CamperBob2 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even know where to start. But you're going to anyway, right? Do you have any sources on your first claim? I'm not your personal reference librarian, but you might start with a few of the more reader-friendly popular accounts and see where your interests take you. Solzhenitsyn's The Gulag Archipelago is worthwhile; also Milton Mayer's They Thought They Were Free , and perhaps Ma Bo's Blood Red Sunset . The ide…

> All told, you'd have to cite about 100,000,000 civilian gun deaths to catch up with the records set by modern governments who weren't as afraid of their citizens and subjects as they should have been. Yep, the thing that's going to scare the United States government out of killing its citizens is them armed with arsenals of M-16's against their… F-22s, B-52s, carrier groups, and tanks. My goodness, this is an absol…

"Yep, the thing that's going to scare the United States government out of killing its citizens is them armed with arsenals of M-16's against their… F-22s, B-52s, carrier groups, and tanks."

Do not underestimate guerrilla warfare. There are many examples in history when a small, armed group managed to resist huge regular armies for years, decades or even achieve victory. See Afghanistan for example: two biggest military powers on the entire planet (USSR, NATO) failed there. Bombers and tanks won't be very useful against small, mobile groups of fighters, especially in urban environment, unless you are going to raze everything to the ground (like Chechnya or Aleppo).

Re: Israeli firm can steal phone data in seconds

#108

Post by s_m_t »

afthonos wrote: post #98
CamperBob2 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one opinion. Asymmetrical warfare amounts to another opinion. The Afghan mujahedeen, the Taliban, Al Qaeda, ISIS, and the Viet Cong can tell you more about that sort of thing. So can various warfighters with more formal credentials, from Sun Tzu Wu to Paul Van Riper. It's hard to fight a guerilla war with tanks, carriers and stealth bombers. Some of those folks will probably outlast the US government at the ra…

I find the asymmetrical warfare argument…weird. Afghanistan as a nation has been in a state of massive system failure for decades. Is that really the hope guns offer? “If the government goes ballistic, our guns will ensure we end up like Afghanistan”?

For 2500 years their way of life has survived Alexander the Great, the Sassanids, Genghis Khan and the mongol hordes, the USSR, and possibly the United States. In that same time many other peoples have ceased to exist entirely.

We may hold different values but we can learn from their longevity and resistance.

Re: Israeli firm can steal phone data in seconds

#110

Post by lb1lf »

kbart wrote: post #107
shadowfiend wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All told, you'd have to cite about 100,000,000 civilian gun deaths to catch up with the records set by modern governments who weren't as afraid of their citizens and subjects as they should have been. Yep, the thing that's going to scare the United States government out of killing its citizens is them armed with arsenals of M-16's against their… F-22s, B-52s, carrier groups, and tanks. My goodness, this is an absol…

"Yep, the thing that's going to scare the United States government out of killing its citizens is them armed with arsenals of M-16's against their… F-22s, B-52s, carrier groups, and tanks." Do not underestimate guerrilla warfare. There are many examples in history when a small, armed group managed to resist huge regular armies for years, decades or even achieve victory. See Afghanistan for example: two biggest milita…

-The reason a small guerilla may 'win' over a large power is simply (IMHO) because the success criteria are different.

The large power needs to eradicate the guerilla (preferably without too much collateral damage in the population the guerilla is hiding in, as that would -in addition to be plain wrong - increase recruitment to said guerilla.).

The guerilla simply needs to not be eradicated. As long as it exists in any meaningful sense, it will tie up vast resources for the adversary.

Or, phrased simply - the large power needs to win to win. The guerilla needs to not lose to win.

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