Female monkeys use wile to rally troops • Hacker News Board

Re: Female monkeys use wile to rally troops

#11

Post by epicureanideal » Wed, Nov 23, 2016, 7:04 AM UTC

chongli wrote: post #10

chillingeffect wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the defintion for Psychological manipulation, not manipulation such as the physical grooming. Manipulation is changing other's behavior, especially against their own self-interest.

But if the change in behaviour results in reproductive success, can it really be argued that it is against the being's self-interest?

Yes. It may be good for the species, but very bad for the individual monkey that loses the fight.

Re: Female monkeys use wile to rally troops

#12

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Nov 23, 2016, 7:14 AM UTC

bootload wrote: post #9

sjcsjc wrote: post #4

"The riskiest group activity of all is warfare, and few animals other than humans and monkeys engage in it."

"... few animals other than humans and monkeys engage in it" Birds, ants, killer-whales are but a few I can immediately think of.

[deleted]

Re: Female monkeys use wile to rally troops

#13

Post by chongli » Wed, Nov 23, 2016, 7:15 AM UTC

epicureanideal wrote: post #11

chongli wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if the change in behaviour results in reproductive success, can it really be argued that it is against the being's self-interest?

Yes. It may be good for the species, but very bad for the individual monkey that loses the fight.

Species and individual are human classifications; they have no ultimate biological significance. If I reproduce successfully, then my genes benefit by becoming more common. If I die before reproducing successfully but manage to assist those who are closely related to me in reproduction, I still score a partial victory by having my genes become more common. The only way in which I truly lose is when my whole tribe gets wiped out.

Re: Female monkeys use wile to rally troops

#14

Post by MichaelMoser123 » Wed, Nov 23, 2016, 7:57 AM UTC

And i thought that the alpha monkey gets to do all the mating. The linked article implies that this is not the case. Are monkeys more egalitarian than apes?

Re: Female monkeys use wile to rally troops

#15

Post by bjourne » Wed, Nov 23, 2016, 8:04 AM UTC

cjcenizal wrote: post #5

Willingness to fight seems to be a successful genetic trait for them. If you don't fight, your troop starves. I don't think "manipulation" has anything to do with it... if the troop doesn't pass on successful genes, the troop dies. So of course the fighters are the ones that mate!

Well, shunning fighting is also a successful trait or else the male monkeys wouldn't be doing it. A good strategy for them is perhaps to appears as if they are a great fighters but in reality back down from most dangerous fights.

Re: Female monkeys use wile to rally troops

#16

Post by gspetr » Wed, Nov 23, 2016, 8:05 AM UTC

Males have evolved to extract resources from the environment.

Females have evolved to extract resources from males.

Re: Female monkeys use wile to rally troops

#17

Post by DanielleMolloy » Wed, Nov 23, 2016, 8:23 AM UTC

And this is the current top comment. Welcome to Hacker News.

(my reply gets MRA-downvoted in 3.. 2.. 1..)

Re: Female monkeys use wile to rally troops

#18

Post by marvin » Wed, Nov 23, 2016, 8:24 AM UTC

Humans do this too, on occasion. Apart from the obvious but difficult-to-verify night club anecdotes, here's a well-known historical example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_feather#World_War_I

Re: Female monkeys use wile to rally troops

#19

Post by cperciva » Wed, Nov 23, 2016, 8:45 AM UTC

marvin wrote: post #18

Humans do this too, on occasion. Apart from the obvious but difficult-to-verify night club anecdotes, here's a well-known historical example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_feather#World_War_I

On the other side of the coin, there's the fictionalized story of Lysistrata.

Re: Female monkeys use wile to rally troops

#20

Post by cperciva » Wed, Nov 23, 2016, 8:49 AM UTC

DanielleMolloy wrote: post #17

And this is the current top comment. Welcome to Hacker News. (my reply gets MRA-downvoted in 3.. 2.. 1..)

Please resist making comments about being downvoted. It never does any good, and makes boring reading. Also, avoid baiting users by announcing that you expect to be downvoted.