As a non-climber: who drills these holes into the wall with the carabiners in them? (AND HOW???)
Czech climber Adam Ondra has conquered the Dawn Wall in record time
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Re: Czech climber Adam Ondra has conquered the Dawn Wall in record time
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's just one safety line (it's called the lead line) and it runs through -- in the video you watch -- quickdraws (or slings with carabiners) that hang on bolts. On other pitches of climbing, it runs through different types of protection: cams, nuts, pitons, and what's called "fixed mank." And yes, the bolts here were originally installed earlier, possibly back in 70s by the first ascensionist, although I'm not su…
I'm very interested now in what these ethical considerations would be. Do you mean that if people put in bolts that it might somehow dilute the climb?
I climb, but I'm not 100% familiar with the ethical considerations personally. I think there are different viewpoints. I think these cover some of the views.
Some people think that bolting a wall "spoils" it ecologically, damages it's pureness. Once you've run a line of bolts up a route you can't un-do it. There's always going to be at least bolt holes or bolts there.
Some people don't think "sport" climbing (where you clip into quickdraws on the way up) is "real" climbing, but "trad" (where you place "pro", or protection, on the way up that you later "clean" or remove) is.
You can still trad climb a route that's been bolted, you just ignore the bolts, but some people might consider it less pure as a result I guess.
Re: Czech climber Adam Ondra has conquered the Dawn Wall in record time
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm very interested now in what these ethical considerations would be. Do you mean that if people put in bolts that it might somehow dilute the climb?
Imagine what would happen if everyone put their own bolts in.
Bolts are re-used between climbers. If someone bolts a route then other climbers use it. You never end up with a wall littered with bolts.
Re: Czech climber Adam Ondra has conquered the Dawn Wall in record time
#64I think that this style of climbing resonates a lot better with the general public because it does such a good job of conveying difficulty. If you look at a photo of Adam on one of his 9b's [1], it looks like a guy having a really hard time in a really steep place, but there are holds there. You see things that seem like a fella could hang from them. Compare to the photo in the article, with its dead vertical, mile-h…
true, only those who tried climbing for at least few times do know how much difference the shape of the hold and the angle of the wall makes the difference.
layman can see me climbing some easy overhang in the gym (say 5c) in amazement, but it's basically a series of pullups with some stamina required (yeah, I am not a very good climber). on real rock with similar surface angle, or on some proper route I wouldn't last there for 2 seconds
Re: Czech climber Adam Ondra has conquered the Dawn Wall in record time
#65As a non-climber: who drills these holes into the wall with the carabiners in them? (AND HOW???)
How: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4zuO1XSxQ
Who: Aside from Yosemite, the answer is "it depends", a lot of these are just set up by enterprising enthusiasts, often technically illegally, but few care enough to bother them.
In some parks & locations they're set up by whoever manages the park / owns the area to attract climbers & the business that comes with it.
Some people in the mountaineering / climbing community don't like them since they leave a permanent trace ("take only photos, leave only footprints"), and prefer to use removable versions of these for just the duration of the climb.
Re: Czech climber Adam Ondra has conquered the Dawn Wall in record time
#66What amazes me more, right now, is that there are people on HN who not only KNOW about climbing, but actually DO it. By comparison, I tend to consider a brisk walk too much exercise.
Ha! ture, i feel like the sport trifecta for developer types might be climbing, cycling (road and/or mtb) and ultimate frisbee :-) Am I out on a ledge here ? (pun intended)
Re: Czech climber Adam Ondra has conquered the Dawn Wall in record time
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
In general, when you see a climber bearing down on a tiny crimp that fits the very tip of just one finger, seeming to support his body weight on it, that is exactly what is happening. His feet will be on holds that are considerably worse. The amazing thing is that if you apply yourself to climbing and train for a few years, you will be able to move off similar holds in similar positions. It's a pretty cool feeling.
As a non-climber, when I watch the Dawn Wall videos, there's an illusion that the surface is 90 degrees sheer, perpendicular to the ground. Understanding that there is actually a slight incline puts those tiny holds in a little more context, moving the concept of clinging to the wall's surface from "impossible" to "outrageous".
For some comparison here's Adam Ondra climbing another route. And no, this photo wasn't rotated 90°, it is really an overhang :)
https://www.8a.nu/images/news/large/636002137114161240_13320...
A famous bouldering problem, "Witlness the Fitness" that inclues a cieling:
Re: Czech climber Adam Ondra has conquered the Dawn Wall in record time
#68As a non-climber: who drills these holes into the wall with the carabiners in them? (AND HOW???)
Different sites have different policies for bolting, for example, Yosemite allows drilling and bolting, as long as it's done by hand (no motorised drills) [1].
Most bolts are placed by local climbers, and it's widely recognised that there is an "ethical" aspect to bolting: whether they should be fitted, where they should be fitted, etc. If someone came along and indiscriminately bolted a route, without any consultation with the local community, it would provoke an outcry.
Generally, bolts are fitted by a climber on an abseil rope. They'll reach the top using an alternative, easy route (at many crags, you can reach the top simply by hiking along a path), then abseil down, and drill/fit the bolts whilst attached to an abseiling rope.
Installing bolts whilst lead-climbing is done, but it's not very common. The climber would start by securing themselves to the cliff using traditional 'lead protection' (which is designed to be temporary, and generally not as secure as a bolt). Once secured, they would drill and fit the bolt.
Re: Czech climber Adam Ondra has conquered the Dawn Wall in record time
#69What amazes me more, right now, is that there are people on HN who not only KNOW about climbing, but actually DO it. By comparison, I tend to consider a brisk walk too much exercise.
well, it is properly amazing activity. endless creativity in movements and situation (unless you only go to gym which would be a shame, but even that is great thing to do), you work out yourself to decent fitness at least, and usually in beautiful mountainous/natural environments. and let's not forget constant need to overcome one's fear of dying/getting injured, which a pretty strong reflex - this builds good overall character over time.
add to it very friendly community, possibility to focus on anything from 2m boulder problem to few thousand metres of altitude difference alpinism depending on your current wishes, and I am not surprised.
there are tons of great sports out there, tried many (but far from all!) but this one just works for me personally best (+ ski touring in winter).
Re: Czech climber Adam Ondra has conquered the Dawn Wall in record time
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's just one safety line (it's called the lead line) and it runs through -- in the video you watch -- quickdraws (or slings with carabiners) that hang on bolts. On other pitches of climbing, it runs through different types of protection: cams, nuts, pitons, and what's called "fixed mank." And yes, the bolts here were originally installed earlier, possibly back in 70s by the first ascensionist, although I'm not su…
I'm very interested now in what these ethical considerations would be. Do you mean that if people put in bolts that it might somehow dilute the climb?
Two considerations when installing permanent hardware:
1 - You're drilling a hole in a rock. It's a small action, but it can't be undone. Can you justify forever altering part of a beautiful natural landscape to support your ambition? Keep in mind that the outdoors community in general has a leave-no-trace ethic.
2 - Every piece of permanent hardware makes the route safer and logistically and psychologically easier (to a certain extent). There's an argument that just because YOU want/need a bolt at a particular point on a route, there's no guarantee that someone stronger/tougher/better-equipped couldn't come along and forgo that bolt. What right do you have to bring the challenge down to your level? Perhaps the most extreme example of this was Cesare Maestri hauling a gigantic compressor powered drill up Cerro Torre and drilling a line of bolts all the way to the top [1]. Reinhold Messner called this 'the murder of the impossible.'
There's a forever-ongoing debate in the climbing community on these subjects, trying to determine what good 'style' is. Part of that discussion is determining the appropriate circumstances for installing permanent hardware. Personally I'm happy to clip bolts when they're needed, but I can understand the perspective of those who don't like em.