61–70 of 109 posts
> Eve is the culmination of years of research and development by the visionary team who previously founded Light Table. ...and then abandoned it after getting me excited about a possible Emacs replacement...
I do like learning about mind-expanding languages, and something resonated with me when the CardWiki interface was revealed. I get that this language is very 'human readable' but at the end of the day if I want to read or write it I will actually have to put a lot of time into learning it.
I'm already suffering decision paralysis with my current language shortlist and this language doesn't make the cut. The card wiki was innovative, like LightTable. To me, this is 'just a language'. I realised you moved away from the wiki idea for a reason but is putting a GUI on the language still on the roadmap?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just seems like it sells poor man's Prolog as a "fundamental change". Anyone to dismiss my confusion? I mean, you can throw HTML around cobol/io/cl/sql/sed with the same wow-effect?
Check out this 2009 research paper that Eve is based on; it's an important new extension to logic programming: https://databeta.wordpress.com/2010/01/05/introducing-dedalu... Also please let me know what you think about Part II (coming later this week). It's all about logic programming and CQRS.
My impression was that it was mostly a synchronous rule language that, at each time step, does vaguely Datalog-like stratified evaluation and then updates its state. That's a very nice model and indeed rooted in logic programming, but I have the impression that referring to the Dedalus tech report is overselling it.
I was keeping a close eye on Eve until it changed direction from programming for everyone to yet another lisp . Is there any writeup/discussion on why this happened? I do like learning about mind-expanding languages, and something resonated with me when the CardWiki interface was revealed. I get that this language is very 'human readable' but at the end of the day if I want to read or write it I will actually have to…
http://www.chris-granger.com/2016/07/21/two-years-of-eve/ has some information on why. Selected quotes: "We learned with Light Table that we can't just slap a UI onto Javascript and expect it to work; the platform has to allow for the representation." "Another reason the platform is necessary is really counterintuitive: we need developers to like it before end users will. Technology diffuses from technical people to non-technical people over time."
I'm impressed with the abstractions! What are recommended "Learn Eve" tutorials?
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> but Eve's semantics are deeply rooted in Logic Programming ... and synchronous programming. Eve is a synchronous relational (or logic) language.
Wouldn't this be asynchronous since there is no ordering unless explicitly constructed, or are we using different semantics?
I was keeping a close eye on Eve until it changed direction from programming for everyone to yet another lisp . Is there any writeup/discussion on why this happened? I do like learning about mind-expanding languages, and something resonated with me when the CardWiki interface was revealed. I get that this language is very 'human readable' but at the end of the day if I want to read or write it I will actually have to…
I wonder why people say/think that. The language uses sigils like @ and #. Sigils automatically make a language non-"human readable" since they have no "human meaning". And no, "you just have to learn the meaning of the language constructs and then you can read it" is not "human readable" in a useful sense. From what I gather, in Eve the @ sign refers to databases. That's fine, but "database foo" is human readable in a sense that "@foo" certainly isn't.
Or look at this example from http://play.witheve.com/#/examples/todomvc.eve
search
[#app filter]
all-checked = if not([#todo completed: false]) then true
else false
none-checked = if [#todo completed: true] then false
else true
todo-count = if c = count[given: [#todo completed: false]] then c
else 0
all-checked = [#todo completed: true]
none-checked = [#todo completed: false]
I know plenty of languages that are more "human readable" than this.
It might still be a nice language once you learned it. But this, too, won't be the holy grail of "programming for non-programmers".
I was keeping a close eye on Eve until it changed direction from programming for everyone to yet another lisp . Is there any writeup/discussion on why this happened? I do like learning about mind-expanding languages, and something resonated with me when the CardWiki interface was revealed. I get that this language is very 'human readable' but at the end of the day if I want to read or write it I will actually have to…
> I get that this language is very 'human readable' I wonder why people say/think that. The language uses sigils like @ and #. Sigils automatically make a language non-"human readable" since they have no "human meaning". And no, "you just have to learn the meaning of the language constructs and then you can read it" is not "human readable" in a useful sense. From what I gather, in Eve the @ sign refers to databases.…
I was keeping a close eye on Eve until it changed direction from programming for everyone to yet another lisp . Is there any writeup/discussion on why this happened? I do like learning about mind-expanding languages, and something resonated with me when the CardWiki interface was revealed. I get that this language is very 'human readable' but at the end of the day if I want to read or write it I will actually have to…
> I get that this language is very 'human readable' I wonder why people say/think that. The language uses sigils like @ and #. Sigils automatically make a language non-"human readable" since they have no "human meaning". And no, "you just have to learn the meaning of the language constructs and then you can read it" is not "human readable" in a useful sense. From what I gather, in Eve the @ sign refers to databases.…
all_checked = todo.select(&:completed?)
none_checked = todo.reject(&:completed?)
todo_count = todo.count(&:completed?)Yeah until I really see some practical applications written in Eve I don't think I'm ever going to really get it. It's nothing against Eve, it might be great, but nothing I've seen about it so far as really captured my imagination and I'm wondering if I'm just missing something.
[Eve member] Out of curiosity, what would you classify as a practical application? We're looking for some interesting examples to build to help show Eve to folks. EDIT: For instance, one of the examples we're throwing together now is an app that a food truck owner could use to put up their menu, manage a queue of orders (in person and online), alert people when their order is ready, accept payments, and post to socia…
It's non trivial, and the whole program is available in book form as a literate program.