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I had a health crisis in France

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271–280 of 312 posts

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Too many young people didn't insure themselves meaning that the relatively low cost of having them as insured couldn't be used to balance out the higher cost needed for later on in life. This was putting the primary burden of the cost on the older generations. This shouldn't be a significant problem. In an actuarial sense, the burden of the cost should largely be born by the party with the risk. If you aren't doin…

> The real problem with cost in the US healthcare system is that the majority of people have a third party payer that will cover almost anything, so they don't care whether prices are remotely fair or not. Why then are healthcare costs significantly lower in countries where everybody has "a third party payer that will cover almost anything" (i.e., the national health system)? People in these systems also "don't care…

"a third party payer that will cover almost anything" (i.e., the national health system)

National health systems make choices about what to cover. Some of them fix prices.

edit: also, I meant stuff like 'all the expenses of a visit to the ER' rather than 'cosmetic surgery'. So the people I was talking about don't have a lot of visible expenses. If we fixed prices that would work out fine, but we don't fix prices.

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I-don't-want-to-pay-for-others != I will not insure my health. US health system needs competition more than socialism [1]. [1] https://mises.org/blog/lack-epipen-competitors-fdas-fault EDIT: A really good comment from link above. Mark S - https://mises.org/blog/lack-epipen-competitors-fdas-fault#co... The culprit in virtually all health care or drug price gouging outrages is insurance and "free" taxpayer money. Ameri…

Competition in a socialized system exists, it is just at the individual practitioner level, rather than at the administrative level. So, could you explain why administrative (e.g. hospital, insurance, physician network) competition is needed in this field? Historically, it's been more expensive this way, not less.

Normal, free market competition does not apply to healthcare because, unlike any other market segment, transactions between patient and doctor are never fully free (voluntary).

If you go to a mall to buy a TV and see two different models offered by two producers you have THREE choices: buy TV A, buy TV B, or buy none, if both are too expensive.. When you are sick and need to see a doctor the third option is not viable - you need to be treated otherwise your condition will get worse and you might even die.

That's why free market in healthcare causes high price inflation: you are not buying a product, you are buying your own life and well being.

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#273
post #254
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet if they'd proposed putting a 9% rate of income tax above £21000 there would have been riots in the Tory party. It's a tax on people born after 1980 who want to have professional jobs, not all graduates . Ironically, this hugely favours immigrants from EU countries with free or cheap education systems. And I do think some people are put off by the debt-ness of it, but that's very tricky to measure.

>Ironically, this hugely favours immigrants from EU countries with free or cheap education systems. You do know that there's (currently) literally nothing stopping you from getting your degree in those EU countries, right?

Well, I already have one - I was in the last generation to get an actual student grant and no tuition fees - but I suspect the main obstacle people will face is language skills and the difficulty of a course not taught in one's first language.

Then there's the plausible scenario of having to apply for a visa in a hurry if the Brexit balloon goes up.

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#274
post #54
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Europe has better life expectancy, Diet has a lot more to to about that than medical care.

That's actually also a health issue. In most EU countries you couldn't even stuff yourself with the crap that's allowed to be sold in the US.

In most EU countries the alternatives are so much better that you wouldn't want to.

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#275
post #247
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK (Wales) I got to see a hospital, a relative-in-law was terminally ill. The hospital was like a knock off slaughterhouse with thick dust everywhere and blood stains on the walls that stayed for weeks. After that I decided to get a check up every time before I go to the UK to not need the hospital there. I hope not all hospitals are like that there.

Health is devolved in the UK. That means there are 4 separate NHS systems - one in England, another in Wales, another in Scotland, and another in Northern Ireland. I agree that there are severe problems with the Welsh NHS.

Didn't know that but I guess the problems are not limited to Wales. My uncles and cousins are expats in the UK, some in Wales and some in London and they come to Turkey (where we're from) whenever they need the dentist. Whenever they got their teeth done there they had to get it fixed here. What I saw in the hospital is that the medical staff work like salesmen, whereas here there is great respect and love towards doctors and other medical staff, and these in turn work with great devotion. A virtuous circle absent there, unfortunately.

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#276
post #21

This is normal on all western Europe states. However France has very high standards in general about health care and is regarded as one of the best systems. I think it's time for US citizens to accept that most of Europe has better life expectancy, lower infant mortality than US, and to be ill is not a financial tragedy. Moreover the treatment that a low-income and high-income citizen receives is very similar, so the…

Remember when Obama was elected? Businesses were complaining ever more strongly about double digit percentage increases in health care insurance costs for their employees. Saying, 'we can't stay in business, compete, if this keeps up.'

The Affordable Care Act was not proposed as some "left", "socialist" initiative. Mainstream America as a whole -- including the "conservative" side, business, etc. -- was clamoring for some sort of effective control on health care costs.

Then, the Republicans made it a political issues. They "lost", and they weren't having any. All their rhetoric and obstruction, not of a "liberal", spendthrift proposal, but of a middle of the road plan that would provide, per their worry, a perceived "win" to the "other side."

Once the ACA was passed -- in its further compromised form -- they did their best to kill it via the budget process / spending, which is a separate activity under control of the legislature (House and Senate). Facets written into the law, such as adjustments to control insurance losses during an initial, transitory period (the demographics and so costs of the newly enrolled not being known in advance), simply were not funded.

That America doesn't have fair, cost-effective, productivity enhancing health care, is a function of political self-interest. And, in a Democracy, said politics are tied back to the electorate, however imperfectly.

Republicans lied about health insurance. People bought the lie. Now we are living it -- ever more.

P.S. Not to mention, blocking actual cost-controlling measures at every chance.

By the way, for all the complaint by insurers about their "losing money" on the ACA, as I understand it, they've seen significant savings due to the ACA in their traditional, employer group plans. Are those mentioned and factored into the rhetoric about the ACA?

Health care in the U.S. is indeed in crisis. At this point, it comes down to a simple trope: If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

The ACA bashing pols are simply part of the problem. Witness their inability to offer up an alternative of any substance.

P.P.S. In other words, I don't give a flying f-ck whether you are "left" or "right". You make progress towards solving the problem, or you don't.

And, I see it both as a economic and structural problem, and as a moral problem. A "moral" Right that is content to leave its fellow citizens suffering when resources and remedy are at hand (and this country can certainly afford them, in the dollar amounts estimated, if it makes the decision to), is not moral. It is merely hypocritical -- at best. I might contemplate using the word "evil".

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#277
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just convenient to use the system. I even had multiple MRIs and dozens of XRays after minor sport injuries just to be sure. I'm not sure where to draw the line, though. How do you determine when "just in case" costs too much? Remember, all Austrians paid for your mris and X-rays. I don't doubt it was worth it this specific case, but aren't the incentives wrong?

At least in Belgium, this just in case behaviour is strongly discouraged by most younger general practitioners, who are made aware of the costs to society during training. Older doctors might still give you referals to specialists or radiographers upon request, and check every tickbox on a blood test sheet, but younger doctors are tought that every additional test puts strain on the solvency and labor capacity of the…

I got two MRIs and those had to be approved by a doctor working for the insurance.

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#278
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just that the costs of getting healthy are taken care of. Here in austria free, yearly "health checkups" are offered to you by every doctor. Meaning, when you go there because of a cold, he will tell you that you ought to do a checkup every year, which include blood tests, psychological screening for alcoholism and other individualized tests like prostate cancer for men. It's just convenient to use the syste…

> and dozens of XRays after minor sport injuries just to be sure Sorry, but this is hard to believe. The use of XRays for minor injuries is not standard anymore. Not only for cost reasons, but also for the still unclear situation about increased cancer risk due to xrays.

Granted "dozens" were a bit too much, it was 10-15 over the course of 5 years.

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ACA is a step in the right direction. Before US healthcare actually improves for a majority (and not just the uninsured - which isn't a small thing in itself) many more steps is needed. The best way to move ACA in a progressive direction would be to have a large public player in both insurance and as a provider.

> "The best way to move ACA in a progressive direction would be to have a large public player in both insurance and as a provider." One of the main reasons ACA is more expensive than it should be is because health insurance companies are jacking up the price. The insurance companies are surplus to requirements, once the US gets rid of them (and cuts down on price gouging by the pharmaceutical industry) the overall he…

To give some context to the cost - between my employer and I, a family plan (the options are single or family) was $14,400 for 2017. That's a high deductible plan that requires us to pay the first $6,000 before insurance pays anything.

Back in my native New Zealand, the total income tax for an average household is about $6,000 USD. $14,000 just for insurance vs $6,000 for "free" healthcare and all of the other infrastructure a country needs.

The US healthcare system is a joke. A joke that wastes money and costs lives.

I took my kid to the doctor recently and a 15 minute appointment was $250. It doesn't cost $1,000/hour for a doctor to do a routine exam.

Part of the problem is the US is that the actual cost of insurance is buried in your benefits so people think that the $200/month they pay is the cost of insurance.

Re: I had a health crisis in France

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. First you call my post absurd, then you basically repeat everything I've written. The only point really left is that medical equipment is cheaper for Swiss. I really don't think this makes much of a difference - the main difference cost wise is what we both wrote: Regulations such that health providers and insurers have strict boundaries. Btw. I'm Swiss, if it hasn't been obvious already.

I called your comparison of the two countries absurd. It's not obvious that you're Swiss, it's obvious that you're out of touch and it's common for Americans to make some simplistic argument, pointing at fringe countries like Norway or Switzerland as an example. You point at some facts that happen to be similar (when adjusted) for the US and Switzerland, but it's rather arbitrary. What the hell does gun ownership hav…

btw. I never edited in Obamacare, it was in there from start. The US has enormous wealth, with a purchase power per capita almost as high as an average Swiss, times 300 million. I think Americans should stop making excuses. I don't see what's wrong with comparing anything internationally - you have 150 experiments with different parameters, there's no reason not to use that knowledge if you want to figure out on how to improve or what not to do.
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