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The psychology of stress and burnout

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Re: The psychology of stress and burnout

#161

Post by [deleted] »

sedachv wrote: post #157
beachstartup wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think stress really just depends on the kind of work, and the expectations of your customers. yes, most restaurants fail, but most businesses fail, because people think of it as some kind of paid vacation rather than an actual job. getting up at 5am and making croissants is a very different thing than getting up at 5am and dealing with people screaming at you because an api endpoint isn't functioning.

It is very easy to fail as a restaurant because you signed the wrong lease/for the wrong place/at the wrong location/in the wrong neighborhood, or any combination thereof. Everyone I personally know in the food services industry works harder than anyone I know doing computer programming. Every task that happens in back and front of house has a very specific start time and a very specific duration allowance - there is…

[deleted]

Re: The psychology of stress and burnout

#162

Post by csallen »

reflexive wrote: post #123
manmal wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it that burns you out most? (fellow freelancer here)

The thing that burns me out about freelance is the client just views you as a cost center. Always want more work in less time. I start to fantasize about the "camaraderie" of being on a team. Maybe there needs to be a Freelancer's Local Union.

I had the exact opposite experience freelancing. I was lucky enough to land some really smart and well-funded clients, while also filling a crucial position that made my value obvious and impossible not to appreciate.

How do you land those roles reliably? I have no idea. Some combination of luck and networking, I'd say, as my best positions were always inbound requests. (Generally: Hey Courtland, we saw that you built cool thing X. Could you build the same for us?) It really helps to be in the financial position to say no to anything that doesn't meet your standards.

Re: The psychology of stress and burnout

#163

Post by wodencafe »

rb808 wrote: post #152
reflexive wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that burns me out about freelance is the client just views you as a cost center. Always want more work in less time. I start to fantasize about the "camaraderie" of being on a team. Maybe there needs to be a Freelancer's Local Union.

You need to learn to say no more often & get also get some new clients.

This is very true, not sure why you were voted down.

Don't be afraid to say "no" to the client, especially if you have given them an honest estimate and they are pushing you to revise the estimate downward.

Re: The psychology of stress and burnout

#164

Post by beachstartup »

sedachv wrote: post #157
beachstartup wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think stress really just depends on the kind of work, and the expectations of your customers. yes, most restaurants fail, but most businesses fail, because people think of it as some kind of paid vacation rather than an actual job. getting up at 5am and making croissants is a very different thing than getting up at 5am and dealing with people screaming at you because an api endpoint isn't functioning.

It is very easy to fail as a restaurant because you signed the wrong lease/for the wrong place/at the wrong location/in the wrong neighborhood, or any combination thereof. Everyone I personally know in the food services industry works harder than anyone I know doing computer programming. Every task that happens in back and front of house has a very specific start time and a very specific duration allowance - there is…

> It is very easy to fail as a restaurant because you signed the wrong lease/for the wrong place/at the wrong location/in the wrong neighborhood, or any combination thereof.

this applies to any business.

> Every task that happens in back and front of house has a very specific start time and a very specific duration allowance - there is no flexibility and no opportunity for pacing or giving yourself some slack.

you've clearly never worked in ops or SRE. or working in a mine, on an oil rig, or on an airplane, or a squad car.

not everyone lives the life of a spoiled computer programmer which seems to be your baseline for evaluation.

Re: The psychology of stress and burnout

#165

Post by marknutter »

emilburzo wrote: post #102
marknutter wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be careful. I got into extreme sports (motorcycle road racing) when stress became overwhelming for me and it turned out to be a manifestation of my BPD. It was therapeutic for the reasons you give, but also because I had a death wish. As a result, I came very close to dying or permanently injuring myself on a couple different occasions – and I am the sole provider for my family with a one and four year old. I…

Thank you for the friendly warning. Yes, it did start as a reckless "last thing I want to do before I die" depression kind of thing while I was a teenager. Fortunately for me, all the physical effort/socializing/amazing scenery/nature changed my perspective 180° and now I'm a happy camper. People that knew me before actually commented on how responsible/cautious I've now become with all my hobbies, some even call me…

That's great to hear. Gives me hope for myself.

Re: The psychology of stress and burnout

#166

Post by beachstartup »

rubicon33 wrote: post #141
77pt77 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Others just lack options...

And what we just witnessed were two fundamentally different ideologies, often at the root of the conflict between republicans and democrats. It's the "strong father" vs. "nurturing mother" dispositions.

o.p. has been in that situation for _10 years_. TEN YEARS. this is a tech job. tech workers are in high demand. he could find a new job if he wanted to.

i mean come on.

Re: The psychology of stress and burnout

#167

Post by jfoutz »

lexhaynes wrote: post #133
dig1 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's been there, it all depends how hard it was. You can recover from light burnouts quickly (by traveling, taking sports), however, hard burnouts change you for life - you'll be lucky to not end up as alcoholic or drug addict. For me, it took couple of years and few failed jobs until I got on track. Today, I'm more than happy to be my own boss as freelancer.

Hello! I'm currently on the "couple of years and a failed job" track... any advice?

Not the op, but, Therapy, exercise, and develop at least a few deep friendships.

For me talking about stuff helped me realize i was angry and depressed. It's hard to see how your mind comes up with ideas, an outside observer can point out motivations for behavior that aren't obvious from inside my own head.

Exercise kind of quiets my mind down. While burning out, work kind of hurts. It's not exactly but something like painful to execute. With excercise, I kind of rescale that feeling. Executing on X isn't as bad as running for a half an hour.

Having a couple of friends you can talk to about whatever is nice. Family is great too, but they don't always have the perspective to give helpful insight. Parents, spouses, might not tell you the whole truth, or their perspective is colored by the past. A friend will tell you you're being an idiot, or not.

Re: The psychology of stress and burnout

#168

Post by sheepmullet »

sedachv wrote: post #157
beachstartup wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think stress really just depends on the kind of work, and the expectations of your customers. yes, most restaurants fail, but most businesses fail, because people think of it as some kind of paid vacation rather than an actual job. getting up at 5am and making croissants is a very different thing than getting up at 5am and dealing with people screaming at you because an api endpoint isn't functioning.

It is very easy to fail as a restaurant because you signed the wrong lease/for the wrong place/at the wrong location/in the wrong neighborhood, or any combination thereof. Everyone I personally know in the food services industry works harder than anyone I know doing computer programming. Every task that happens in back and front of house has a very specific start time and a very specific duration allowance - there is…

The difference is the type of stress, the mental effort, and the expectations.

At the end of a hard day in the kitchen I'm ready to go hang out with friends and enjoy my free time.

At the end of a hard day as a software dev I can hardly string a sentence together and want to go be by myself.

Likewise in the kitchen I didn't get given completely unrealistic timeframes. As long as I focused and worked hard it was all good.

As a software dev I constantly have pressure to perform miracles and hit unrealistic deadlines from all sides. And the pressure is cumulative. If I have a bad day today I'm going to have to work extra hard and under more pressure the rest of the week to catch up.

If the food services industry paid as well as software dev I'd go back in a heartbeat.

Re: The psychology of stress and burnout

#169

Post by wott »

amelius wrote: post #14
emilburzo wrote: post #7

It's all in your head, for better or worse. Extreme sports or intense physical exertion have been key, for me, in dealing with daily stress. And no, I'm not some superstar adrenaline pumped athlete, just an amateur that loves skydiving/paragliding/fast motorcycles/hiking/etc over the weekend. I didn't realize how much these activities help me, until I had to take a break from them for whatever reason (e.g.: winter wh…

Sleeping (like 9+ hours a night) can also help a lot.

Except that you may not be able to sleep more than 5 or 6 hours, exactly because of stress / burnout/ depression. I haven't scored a 9 hours night in many years, not because I don't have time for it, not because I would be the kind of people who only need short nights, but because I cannot, even after a sleep deprivation period.

Re: The psychology of stress and burnout

#170

Post by agumonkey »

CocaKoala wrote: post #158
agumonkey wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardon the slight arrogance, but isn't most of this a technical problem that can either be solved mechanically or you end up knowing by heart after a few months ?

When it all goes smoothly, it's a technical problem that can be solved mechanically or with a schedule that you know by heart after a few months. If you're curious, please don't hesitate to ask me how often things went smoothly.

Aight, forgive me for asking, I just never encountered this, most of the restaurant I worked at where more industrial than a bakery.
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