Live data from Hacker News

Time for a Rigorous National Debate About Surveillance

wsj.com

61–70 of 93 posts

Re: Time for a Rigorous National Debate About Surveillance

#61
post #6

Those who voted for Trump - did you know you were going to get this? I think Trump's stance on Apple was pretty indicative of where things are headed.

I suspected (disclaimer, didn't vote, because has no right to, but supported Trump since the first dilbert articles).

But I thought that in the long run the identity politics and social justice gone berserk are the greater danger.

And breaking the spine of Apple, while probably wrong would have given me great satisfaction.

Re: Time for a Rigorous National Debate About Surveillance

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Locking my door no. But building 4 meter concrete fence with barbed wire and armed guards around my house probably is. Is encryption door lock(which in the real world are trivial to bypass in case of valid warrant) or Bond villain's lair? Encryption is red flag because so few people are using it.

"so few" people are using online banking ? Or are most of them just connecting via unencrypted telnet sessions ?

Any encryption that relies on CA certificates whose issuers can be coerced by the government is not secure by default if you want to protect yourself from said government.

Re: Time for a Rigorous National Debate About Surveillance

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is locking your door a red flag?

Locking my door no. But building 4 meter concrete fence with barbed wire and armed guards around my house probably is. Is encryption door lock(which in the real world are trivial to bypass in case of valid warrant) or Bond villain's lair? Encryption is red flag because so few people are using it.

How about surfing in incognito/private mode? is that a red flag?

Re: Time for a Rigorous National Debate About Surveillance

#65

For anyone confused about the date of this article, it was co-authored by the incoming CIA director Mike Pompeo at the beginning of this year.

Yes, I attempted to provide this context in the original title, "Incoming CIA Director: Strong encryption in personal communications is a red flag," but it's been changed to the title of the editorial.

The main reason this seemed to be of interest to the HN community is the following: "Forcing terrorists into encrypted channels, however, impedes their operational effectiveness by constraining the amount of data they can send and complicating transmission protocols, a phenomenon known in military parlance as virtual attrition. Moreover, the use of strong encryption in personal communications may itself be a red flag."

Re: Time for a Rigorous National Debate About Surveillance

#66
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please elaborate?

You can't kill people with encryption. In fact, encrypted communications has saved many lives.

You can't kill a person with encryption. The history of military ciphers indicates that encryption is rather important to operational security, which is in turn crucial if you want to kill one hell of a lot of people.

Want to torpedo a passenger ship with your submarine? Better make sure the captain of said ship doesn't know you're coming. And that means all your communications traffic with those who are helping you to track the ship must be encrypted.

Encryption has no inherent morality. It is just a tool. Whether it is used for good or evil is entirely dependent on the hand that wields it.

Re: Time for a Rigorous National Debate About Surveillance

#67
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't kill people with encryption. In fact, encrypted communications has saved many lives.

The same can be argued pertaining to guns. Guns have saved many lives. Guns and encryption are amoral. How and what they are used for determines if they are "good" or "bad". EDIT: Encryption may have been used by bad people to secretly carry out bad things with the end result of people dying (because the "good people" couldn't decrypt their communications). We all want only the "good" people to have guns and encrypti…

I don't want "only the 'good' people to have guns and encryption". I feel they are different:

Guns are used for two reasons: target practice (sport), and shooting to kill (hunt/attack/defend).

Encryption is used to keep communications secret.

We can have lengthy debates on the various uses of guns, but staying on topic, I find nothing wrong with people keeping communication secret. Sure, it'd be EASIER if the bad guys had to communication openly, but the "bad" isn't the communication, it's the bad things they DO.

I find nothing morally wrong with all people, including bad guys, being able to communicate in secret.

(The obvious retort is that there's nothing wrong with having guns, because it's the SHOOTING that might be bad, not the possession. Communication, however, exists for many reason, while guns exist for few, so I don't see the comparison as terribly valuable).

Re: Time for a Rigorous National Debate About Surveillance

#68
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Locking my door no. But building 4 meter concrete fence with barbed wire and armed guards around my house probably is. Is encryption door lock(which in the real world are trivial to bypass in case of valid warrant) or Bond villain's lair? Encryption is red flag because so few people are using it.

How about surfing in incognito/private mode? is that a red flag?

And how about using outgoing VPN from your office? If you are and IT security chief and see somebody doing it - what will you think?

Re: Time for a Rigorous National Debate About Surveillance

#69
One of the authors(Mike Pompeo) is going to be appointed as head of the CIA. I suppose it's natural for him to want to expand surveillance, since it helps him do his job. I hope Trump speaks with Snowden at some point, which seems somewhat more likely given how a whistleblowing organization helped his campaign. I don't really like these surveillance programs.

The one good thing he said was he wants better congressional oversight. It helps him cover his ass, but I suppose it also lets concerned congressmen get more information. I don't know how much information the intelligence committee currently gets, or if the people on that committee are for or against increased surveillance.

I don't mind this guy on the CIA; I'd be more concerned about who's going to head the NSA.

Post reply on HN