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Time for a Rigorous National Debate About Surveillance

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Re: Time for a Rigorous National Debate About Surveillance

#51
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please elaborate?

You can't kill people with encryption. In fact, encrypted communications has saved many lives.

Agreed. Furthermore, your toddler can't accidentally kill themselves or others by playing on your keyboard and sending out encrypted reply-alls.

Re: Time for a Rigorous National Debate About Surveillance

#53
post #12
post #6

Those who voted for Trump - did you know you were going to get this? I think Trump's stance on Apple was pretty indicative of where things are headed.

> Those who voted for Trump - did you know you were going to get this? Of course we did, we know this next 4 years are going to be largely terrible and he will be a horrendous president. However sometimes before you can rebuild you need to burn the existing structure to the ground first. We're tired of the status quo and want significant change in how we're represented. Sometimes you have to endure a little pain befo…

> we know this next 4 years are going to be largely terrible and he will be a horrendous president.

I heard the EXACT same thing said about President Obama. The results were debatable.

> EDIT: I think the next round of house, senate and presidental campaigns/elections will be vastly different (for the better) than the last 20 years.

You're projecting. Plenty of Americans are very happy with the way the elections went and suspect more republicans taking power in the midterm elections. Historically republicans do better in midterm elections.

Re: Time for a Rigorous National Debate About Surveillance

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument is similar to the "nothing to hide" argument. People shouldn't be flagged just for wanting privacy.

Not really. I'm saying that it's one of many factors, some typically benign (like "gun owner"), and some not benign ("has a brother fighting for IS in Syria"). To do a better job at intelligence, our government needs to look at these holistically. My argument also extends to things like the TSA. We all like to complain about having to wait in line for security at the airport. Why can't they do better threat assessmen…

> chrissnell, an officer in the Army Reserve,

thats a red flag. you've got specialized training in weapons and tactics. maybe they should "keep an eye on you" ?

Re: Time for a Rigorous National Debate About Surveillance

#55

I'm going to go out on a limb here. I think he's right. It's a red flag, not the only red flag. Like, if you use strong encryption, have associated with known drug traffickers, and served time in prison on a felony charge, someone might want to keep an eye on you. It's one of many factors that may or may not be worth considering. The use of strong encryption alone should not be considered bad.

Is locking your door a red flag?

Locking my door no. But building 4 meter concrete fence with barbed wire and armed guards around my house probably is.

Is encryption door lock(which in the real world are trivial to bypass in case of valid warrant) or Bond villain's lair?

Encryption is red flag because so few people are using it.

Re: Time for a Rigorous National Debate About Surveillance

#56
post #27

>> "America is in a long war against a resilient enemy capable of striking the homeland, but U.S. intelligence capabilities are falling short of meeting the threat." >> "Reasonable warrantless searches are compatible with the Fourth Amendment. So are searches of data shared with third parties, such as social-media posts—a highly valuable surveillance window, since people undergoing radicalization are prone to showcas…

Depends on the medium, I think. If you post it just to your friends in a protected way with a reasonable expectation of privacy, then it feels wrong for the government to do dragnet surveillance on that. On the other hand, if you start tweeting about your plans to commit an act of terror, how is that any different than going to the city center and shouting it?

Re: Time for a Rigorous National Debate About Surveillance

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is locking your door a red flag?

Locking my door no. But building 4 meter concrete fence with barbed wire and armed guards around my house probably is. Is encryption door lock(which in the real world are trivial to bypass in case of valid warrant) or Bond villain's lair? Encryption is red flag because so few people are using it.

"so few" people are using online banking ? Or are most of them just connecting via unencrypted telnet sessions ?

Re: Time for a Rigorous National Debate About Surveillance

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument is similar to the "nothing to hide" argument. People shouldn't be flagged just for wanting privacy.

Not really. I'm saying that it's one of many factors, some typically benign (like "gun owner"), and some not benign ("has a brother fighting for IS in Syria"). To do a better job at intelligence, our government needs to look at these holistically. My argument also extends to things like the TSA. We all like to complain about having to wait in line for security at the airport. Why can't they do better threat assessmen…

This program exists, it's called "Trusted Traveler". The most important thing is that it is opt in. If you want to trade some of your privacy for a more efficient time at the airport, you are free to apply.

The elephant in this particular room is that if the government has enough information about you to make these sort of decisions holistically, it also has enough information to effect many, many abuses. History teaches us that trusting an organization like this to "do the right thing" is a fools game.

Re: Time for a Rigorous National Debate About Surveillance

#59
post #14

Just like keeping the curtains drawn on your house is a red flag...

Funnily enough in The Netherlands there's an aversion to curtains, to the point where people decorate the interior of their houses next to the window as some sort of diorama. (Just so people don't think I'm just making this up: https://stuffdutchpeoplelike.com/2010/11/24/no-8-not-owning-... )

In Norway (and probably a few other places!) there's a sect called the Læstadians after the founder, Something-or-the-other Læstadius (19th-century Swedish preacher)

Anyway, for some reason they have an aversion to curtains, too - it is commonly said to stem from one of the significant preachers who, during a sermon, exclaimed 'One does not need curtains to go to heaven!'

The point he was trying to make was that one didn't need to be well heeled (19th century northern Norway not being anybody's idea of a well-off community!) to make it past the pearly gates; however, this has since been taken to mean that 'Curtains will not get you to heaven!' - and, hence, being useless.

This is probably apocryphical; however, it is an anecdote lots of Norwegians have heard, and sadly, I do not know any Læstadians I can ask to verify it...

Re: Time for a Rigorous National Debate About Surveillance

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is locking your door a red flag?

Locking my door no. But building 4 meter concrete fence with barbed wire and armed guards around my house probably is. Is encryption door lock(which in the real world are trivial to bypass in case of valid warrant) or Bond villain's lair? Encryption is red flag because so few people are using it.

Is not speeding a red flag if the flow of traffic is going faster than the speed limit?
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