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The U.S. Census Bureau Gave Up Names of Japanese-Americans in WWII (2007)

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Re: The U.S. Census Bureau Gave Up Names of Japanese-Americans in WWII (2007)

#61

Post by JoeAltmaier »

greglindahl wrote: post #57
omonra wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer to your question is 'black' because of political correctness. This is a great example of why it's pernicious - as it robs us of ability to describe the world. There is actually a more appropriate term - 'mulatto' which was specifically created to describe people born to black / white parents. Today it's considered 'dated and offensive', so we don't have a 'polite' and 'correct' way to describe the ethnicit…

Even before mulatto fell out of use, most white people called anyone with "a single drop of black blood" black. I grew up an a racist part of the southern US, and I assure you that my neighbors would have considered "mulatto" to be a kind of black person.

Strangely, we still do that. Imagine if a 'single drop of white blood' (whatever that means) meant you were white. Then America would be 99% white?

Re: The U.S. Census Bureau Gave Up Names of Japanese-Americans in WWII (2007)

#62

Post by rz2k »

mc32 wrote: post #40
ue_ wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my memory is correct, the Japanese census does not collect data on ethnicity/race at all.

Did they have need to, given they are pretty homogeneous? On the other hand you have to register with the local Koseki[1] and last names are positive indicators of ethnicity for the non-Japanese [except for haafu with ethnic Japanese fathers]. On the other hand, France by law does not track race characteristics, so they can't rely on census statistics to know how well or poorly a population is doing. [1] https://en.w…

I know nothing about Japan, but how about people of Burakumin descent? I recall reading that there was great effort made to make it difficult to look up, including the removal of labels on old maps that showed the blocks where they had been forced to live.

Presumably there are legal restrictions on record collection to impede the possible future discrimination.

Re: The U.S. Census Bureau Gave Up Names of Japanese-Americans in WWII (2007)

#63

Post by ue_ »

laurieg wrote: post #44
ue_ wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my memory is correct, the Japanese census does not collect data on ethnicity/race at all.

That is correct. It has some downsides. A recent piece of research into racism recently assumed that all Japanese nationals were ethnically Japanese so did not survey them on their experiences with racism. Considering around 1 in 50 children in Japan are 'mixed race' this seems a little off.

Racism is one factor which is impacting my decision making with regard to teaching English in Japan. I have never experienced racism (other than comments when I was younger), so I don't know if I could deal with what I have anecdotally heard to be both institutional and xenophobic

Re: The U.S. Census Bureau Gave Up Names of Japanese-Americans in WWII (2007)

#64

Post by ue_ »

rz2k wrote: post #62
mc32 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they have need to, given they are pretty homogeneous? On the other hand you have to register with the local Koseki[1] and last names are positive indicators of ethnicity for the non-Japanese [except for haafu with ethnic Japanese fathers]. On the other hand, France by law does not track race characteristics, so they can't rely on census statistics to know how well or poorly a population is doing. [1] https://en.w…

I know nothing about Japan, but how about people of Burakumin descent? I recall reading that there was great effort made to make it difficult to look up, including the removal of labels on old maps that showed the blocks where they had been forced to live. Presumably there are legal restrictions on record collection to impede the possible future discrimination.

I know such discrimination is unconstitutional, but I do not know if there is legislation to set up penalties.

Re: The U.S. Census Bureau Gave Up Names of Japanese-Americans in WWII (2007)

#66

Post by hackuser »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #6
thesehands wrote: post #4

"I'm sad to learn it," he says of the new discovery. "It would be sadder yet to continue to deny that it happened, if, as now seems clear, it did happen. You cannot learn from and correct past mistakes unless you know about them." I wonder if this will ever be said about Snowden in the NSA

>> You cannot learn from and correct past mistakes unless you know about them. I must getting older, because I see this statement a lot and when you look back, its clear we never do learn from our past mistakes.

> I see this statement a lot and when you look back, its clear we never do learn from our past mistakes.

Well, we do. We have greatly improved (but not sufficient) civil rights for minorities and women, European wars are a thing of the past (hopefully), we have mechanisms that have prevented economic depressions for over 70 years, etc.

But it's not a spectator sport. If I sit back and say, 'we haven't learned', then in effect I'm the one who hasn't learned. Democracy relies on its citizens to come forward, speak up, organize, and act. I've read many great leaders complain that their biggest obstacle isn't their enemies, but those sitting on their hands.

Re: The U.S. Census Bureau Gave Up Names of Japanese-Americans in WWII (2007)

#67

Post by hackuser »

SixSigma wrote: post #58

http://ibmandtheholocaust.com/ IBM was contracted to collect census data for many of the European govts. with their wonderful new Hollerith machines in the 1930s. This was then passed on / sold to the Third Reich and used to filter who went where. You didn't think it was all done with pencil and paper did you ?

Allegedly, IBM also was the subcontractor who ran the internment camps (or some part of them) for American citizens of Japanese ancestry.

Re: The U.S. Census Bureau Gave Up Names of Japanese-Americans in WWII (2007)

#68

Post by ghshephard »

mikeash wrote: post #39
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you on the prejudice part. But pedantically, its not so easy to dismiss 'race'. We see strong genetic pooling around the world. We can make up a new word for that, or use the one we have. Unfortunately the current word has been muddied by history.

There certainly are genetic differences around the world, but they line up only vaguely with race. If race were about genetics, then there would be a ton of different races in Africa, and we'd probably lump all other people under one "non-African" race. My favorite way to illustrate the arbitrary nature of race is to ask what the race is of our current (alas, soon to be former) president. Typically the answer is "bla…

I find it difficult to believe anybody would throw out "black" as a race. That's about as specific as saying my heritage is "white".

From: http://www.arogundade.com/is-barack-obama-black-or-mixed-rac...

Barack Obama's ... was born on August 4, 1961 in Honolulu, Hawaii. His parents were of contrasting ethnic backgrounds. His mother, the late Stanley Ann Dunham, was born in Wichita, Kansas. She was an American of English and Irish ancestry. Obama’s father, the late Barack Obama Sr., was born in Kenya’s Nyanza Province. He was of African heritage, belonging to an ethnic group called the Luo. They make up Kenya’s third largest ethnic group, with other members scattered across eastern Uganda and northern Tanzania.

Re: The U.S. Census Bureau Gave Up Names of Japanese-Americans in WWII (2007)

#69

Post by hackuser »

If this bothers you, what are you doing about it?

Is your company retaining data that can be used against your customers? Is it implementing tech (end-to-end encryption, data minimization, anonymization, decentralization, etc.) to reduce their exposure? Don't wait until someone shows up with a NSL, claiming all Muslims are terrorists and therefore spying on everyone who believes in Islam or is suspected of being a friend of a Muslim person is a national security issue. Then it will be too late. Start now. We are all responsible for what happens next.

Are you calling your elected representatives? Let them know now that you abhor civil rights violations, especially in the name of security, and will hold them accountable - now before they are caught up in sensationalized threats and secret briefings.

Re: The U.S. Census Bureau Gave Up Names of Japanese-Americans in WWII (2007)

#70

Post by mikeash »

ghshephard wrote: post #68
mikeash wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There certainly are genetic differences around the world, but they line up only vaguely with race. If race were about genetics, then there would be a ton of different races in Africa, and we'd probably lump all other people under one "non-African" race. My favorite way to illustrate the arbitrary nature of race is to ask what the race is of our current (alas, soon to be former) president. Typically the answer is "bla…

I find it difficult to believe anybody would throw out "black" as a race. That's about as specific as saying my heritage is "white". From: http://www.arogundade.com/is-barack-obama-black-or-mixed-rac... Barack Obama's ... was born on August 4, 1961 in Honolulu, Hawaii. His parents were of contrasting ethnic backgrounds. His mother, the late Stanley Ann Dunham, was born in Wichita, Kansas. She was an American of Engli…

Just google "first african american president" and watch the results roll in. "African American" is just a modern euphemism for "black," or at least "black American."
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