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Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

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Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#171

Post by wesamco »

mr_overalls wrote: post #112
patates wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dart doesn't have the adoption yet and has a different plan when it comes to mobile ( https://github.com/flutter/flutter ). I love Go, but it's not really a suitable language to do UI, or anything that deals with data models. C#, however, is a perfect replacement for Java, most of the times. I would say "it's simply superior in every imaginable metric other than cross-platform implementations of the compiler/VM" but…

I always hear of the JVM's legendary capabilities, the result of so many million engineer-hours baked in. What would be required to bring the CLR into parity with it?

it's happening: CoreRT[0], a .NET Core runtime optimized for AOT (ahead of time compilation) scenarios, with the accompanying .NET Native compiler toolchain. will enable you to compile for any OS/any platform including ARM. compile for every platform, run the AOT compiled Tree-shaken Machine code executable.

[0] https://github.com/dotnet/corert

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#172

Post by bitmapbrother »

criddell wrote: post #105
m3rc wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that something Google wants? I don't see the advantage for them short of adding on C# devs

It's a mighty good option to have when you are negotiating with Microsoft. Imagine Google offering to Microsoft that they would adopt Microsoft development tools and technologies iff Microsoft kills Windows Phone.

So you want Google to let Microsoft control their mobile development strategy if Microsoft promises to shut down their, less than 1% market share, mobile OS? Right.

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#173

Post by topbanana »

Nullabillity wrote: post #137
jahnu wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* C# is much more mature * It has an enormous user base * It's not owned by Oracle Not saying they will but those are real possible reasons for Google to do this.

> * It's not owned by Oracle So you replace one lawsuit-happy DB company with... another lawsuit-happy DB company.

The point of the .Net foundation is that it isn't owned by Microsoft.

I'm not convinced Microsoft is as lawsuit-happy as Oracle.

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#174

Post by ygra »

serge2k wrote: post #147
blauditore wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I started going into C# from Java a bit, there were two things slightly annoying me: - Class extensions: I saw code examples online that just wouldn't work for me because the compiler told me a certain method of a built-in class wouldn't exist. After I while I found out that the author of that snippet had used class extensions and not bothered to mention. - The var keyword: While this is sometimes nice for quick…

both of these are great tools, but as with many you have tradeoffs. Extension methods give you a way to produce very clean reusable code to extend behaviour of classes. Downside is you do need to bring in the extension method class (not a big deal). Java is a shitty language exactly because they don't put in things like these out of fear that people don't know how to use them.

Java has default methods on interfaces instead. It's their take on the same issue, in a way. They considered the fact that with C#'s extension methods types not owned by the developer can be extended (as well as platform types) a problem and opted instead for a solution where someone who owns a type also controls its extensions. Default methods in Java are purely a way of adding stuff to interfaces in your API without breaking existing implementations (but also allowing future implementations to override those methods). C# on the other hand is merely a bit of syntactic sugar which can be confusing at times. (I have to admit not to be a fan of various libraries that add extension methods to integers and similar. It's not a good way of exposing an API in my eyes.)

TL;DR: Java has something similar, it just came from a different view of how the problem should be solved. Both approaches have advantages and drawbacks.

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#175

Post by nightski »

ygra wrote: post #166
youdounderstand wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UWP and Xamarin apps can use XAML, so it's not like the underlying ideas of WPF/Silverlight are dead.

WPF is a lot more than just a markup language for object graphs. Heck, the features I consider most essential and important to WPF (data binding, templating, and the idea that controls only encapsulate behaviour) have nothing to do with XAML at all.

But aren't all those features you mentioned part of UWP also?

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#176

Post by ygra »

wesamco wrote: post #168
_cmmn wrote: post #2

Nice. Now please make C# a first-class citizen in Android and start to migrate from Java to C#.

I doubt it's going to be a first-class citizen like Java anytime soon. there is a lot of Innovation going on, with the new open source .NET. the CoreRT[1] project compiles C#->C++->Machine code for any platform, including ARM. and Samsung has been a big contributor to make that happen. and today during the Connect() event, they announced that every Xamarin forms app will run on Tizen[2]. [1] https://github.com/dotnet…

Where did you get that they compile C# to C++? I thought .NET Native was compiling to machine code, maybe with IL in between, but certainly not via another high-level language.

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#177

Post by john_reel »

KirinDave wrote: post #145
Nullabillity wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * It's not owned by Oracle So you replace one lawsuit-happy DB company with... another lawsuit-happy DB company.

It's worth noting that Microsoft is aggressively pledging about patents, open sourcing with very clear and explicit licenses, and making industry-level promises that imply they're serious about making .NET Core an open and usable platform. It would be nicer if there was a managed langauge platform that was not tied to an entity with a history of patent litigation, but let's not lose our sense of scale here. The degre…

Google uses OpenJDK now. Nothing to worry about.

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#178

Post by rubber_duck »

on_and_off wrote: post #164
skizm wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same question. What advantages does C# the language have vs Java the language? Do people perceive Java as playing "catch up" with other languages? e: I only ask because I've always heard the opposite.

Pretty much everything that is in kotlin should have been in java for a while IMO and some of these features are in C#

Kotlin fixes some of Java issues but it still can't fix JVM design decisions such as lack of value types (coming to JVM in what 5 years from now ?) and messy native interop.

Java has some really fancy JIT compilers designed for servers but .NET is much more AoT/native interop friendly with value types and reified generics, you can get a lot closer to C++ like code with C# than with Java (avoiding GC with structs, controlling memory layouts in collections, etc.)

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#179

Post by ygra »

chamakits wrote: post #167
JBReefer wrote: post #37

I like the laptop with a bunch of lovely Microsoft technologies, and then WiX. Please, please die WiX. Imperative XML + non-deterministic execution order + the worst error messages of the entire stack. I love C# and the CLR, but damn WiX sucks.

I haven't done a lot of 'Windows exclusive' development for a while, but something like 6-8 years ago, I was making an installer for a small company that up to that moment, they had to send someone over to spend a whole day installing the software on client's machines. I was strongly suggested to use WiX. I spent 2 months trying to get something to work, but I wasn't able to get nothing truly useful to run. I remembe…

Can NSIS by now roll-back partially failed installations? That's to me the biggest gripe I have as a user of such installers – whenever something weird goes wrong you end up with a half-installed application of which you don't know how to get rid of the pieces.

Re: Google joins .NET Foundation as Samsung brings .NET support to Tizen

#180

Post by bitmapbrother »

criddell wrote: post #158
karlmdavis wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why on earth would Google care enough right now about MS' phone efforts for that to be something they're actively seeking? I think it's far more likely that any movement towards C# on Android would be motivated by: 1) perhaps enough devs are asking for it, and 2) it would give them extra leverage in negotiations with Oracle about Java.

Google would be foolish to think Microsoft is down for good in the phone market. If this is something they would ever consider negotiating for, they wouldn't wait until Microsoft is strong. You do it when they are weak. Plus, if they make a deal with Microsoft, Samsung can't come along and make the same deal with Microsoft for Tizen tools.

The only foolish company would be Microsoft for thinking they still have a chance in mobile. Besides, they've already capitulated as their marketshare is below 1% and continuing to decline.

It's all about the mobile ecosystems and it's something that Microsoft and Samsung will ever have.

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