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Re: undefined

#51
Figure out how to repurpose this technology to make web sites and apps "sticky", and profit.

To see some of this technology in action, try "freeslots.com". This site has simulated reel-type slot machines, done quite well. The site has been around for years, but it's now HTML5 instead of Java-based. The payout ratio for the different machines varies; some have a positive payout ratio. If you get a modest number of credits, you can sign up for their "sweepstakes". It seems to be a tool to find new gambling addicts.

Re: undefined

#52
post #43

There's a really good book about the design of the slot machines, called Addiction by Design. It talks about the different UI and design elements that go into keeping the gambler engaged and why they keep spending more money. It's a really amazing and enlightening book to read if you're interested in learning more about the mechanics of the slot machines and the designs of the casino. https://www.amazon.com/Addiction…

I absolutely don't understand the draw of slot machines. I watched a woman playing a smartphone version on the subway; for three stops, she just kept hitting the "spin" button and watching the results. I admit to not knowing how they work, but do they typically have any more interaction than "pull lever, sporadically receive reward"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber

This is the 101 explanation of the science at work. It's basically a conditioned response to dopamine caused by pulling the lever. At it's most basic level, if you are gambler, you pull the lever and get a neurotransmitter reward.

Re: undefined

#53
post #45
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a huge horse in this fight, because I work for an online casino/slot machine manufacture. The following is my opinion, bl.a I know at least one physical casino where the tax authorities are very happy looking the other way, as patrons gamble tons of dirty cash. They do look very intently on the income and track it carefully because there is a percentage fee on gambling. Presumably that is why people are allowe…

Why would tax authorities be happy to capture the tax on a few percent of illicit earnings rather than be able to take down a big RICO evader?

As it was explained to me it was a relatively simple way to recapture some additional tax funds. Also this wasn't the US, Denmark do prosecute criminals, but we don't have anything like RICO.

Re: undefined

#54
I see a lot of parallels between gambling and video games, specifically in how video game reward mechanisms resemble gambling with the way the brain responds to intense situations and risk/reward scenarios—simply put, you can get quite a rush from either, and there's an entire industry built up around both to profit from this.

I'd love to see a thorough comparison between these two. I think there's a lot of room to explore similarity in stigmas around addiction and indulgence in these pastimes, how people justify it, and the addiction mechanisms at play. Maybe there's even an exploration of healthy gambling habits that mirror healthy entertainment habits? I'd love to read about this stuff.

Jonathan Blow has a great presentation on the mechanisms of video game addiction and the role of the game designer in building ethically responsible games [0]. I highly recommend it to anybody who's interested in exploring this line of thinking.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqFu5O-oPmU

Re: undefined

#55
post #41
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a huge horse in this fight, because I work for an online casino/slot machine manufacture. The following is my opinion, bl.a I know at least one physical casino where the tax authorities are very happy looking the other way, as patrons gamble tons of dirty cash. They do look very intently on the income and track it carefully because there is a percentage fee on gambling. Presumably that is why people are allowe…

> Should we ban or limit alcohol to some nominal amount? If not, why should we treat gambling differently? No, because nobody steals $4 million to buy alcohol. Alcoholics don't tend to be spending anywhere near the numbers in OP. Even if nominal was 0, the proposal would still prevent stealing or borrowed money being gambled. It's not an essential part of the proposal. If tax authorities are overlooking theft being g…

However some alcoholics spend so much time getting drunk/being drunk they can't do their jobs and so end up on the street.

I don't object that nobody should gamble on stolen or borrowed money (though some hedge funds may disagree), but that is different from having some nominal limit. For one how about savings? How about retired people with too much time and large pensions? How about saving up for a honeymoon in vegas?

Re: undefined

#56
post #21
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read that the way gambling engages the dopaminergic system in gambling addicts is more akin to physical addictions like alcohol, tobacco, or opiates. So maybe a better analogy would be "in the same way freely available opiates would enable drug addicts". There often seems to be a sentiment of "Why congratulate a recovering alcoholic? I've never had a drinking problem so why isn't someone congratulating me." from…

The vast majority of opiates, substituted amphetamines, and cocaine were available OTC for a myriad of ailments. Many Vietnam veterans were treated in hospitals with heroin, yet they didn't become addicted. What it boils down to is that the addict is unable to achieve homeostasis with their environment. Unfulfilling relationships (both romantic and platonic), financial burdens, lack of a job, lack of intimacy all con…

> Many Vietnam veterans were treated in hospitals with heroin, yet they didn't become addicted.

And many did, I assume. Were there studies that unequivocally showed that the non-addicted had good jobs, stable relationships, and a purpose in life, etc? There are lots of stories of successful college students, etc., who start dabbling in drugs and spiral down despite having all their ducks lined up in a row.

It seems to me that it's just as likely down to genetics. Some people are predisposed to addiction to certain things, and some aren't.

As a dumb anecdote, I smoked briefly after college because my girlfriend did. When I stopped dating her, I stopped smoking. I tend to think that I'm probably not predisposed to nicotine addiction.

Re: undefined

#57
post #37
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, although I do believe that tons of good science has chimed in on the role of dopamine in the human brain. Give a smoker some chantix without alleviating their financial burdens or changing "the system" in any way and watch how long it takes them to want nothing to do with cigarettes. There is a complex biological process at work here that plenty of smart people spend their entire lives trying to understand.

Substituting one drug for another to treat a psychological or behavioral deficiency has been a popular prescription for a long time, and reciditivism has prevailed in a majority of cases, upwards of 90 percentile in alcohol and opiate abusers. JGI if you need sources, though those numbers are actively obfuscated to serve the practitioners, pharmas & lawmakers' self-interests; my knowledge comes from shared 1st hand e…

Sorry I'm not a mental health professional or a physician and had to google "reciditivism" which appears to be a reversion into criminal behavior which is maybe a fancy word for relapse I guess. You are saying that medicine used to treat psychological or behavior deficiencies is of little or no value? Don't you think the shared knowledge of acquaintances is kind of anecdotal? If we are using anecdotes then I would add that I used chantix to quit smoking years ago and never looked back. It flicked an instance switch in my brain that gave me enough distance from that negative behavioral feedback loop to quit for good. Then I quit chantix and never took either again. For me it was (probably literally) a life saver.

Re: undefined

#58
post #38
post #22

I wouldn't be against a law that prevented people from gambling large amounts of money unless they could prove the money was theirs. (ETA: whew, a quadruple negative.) The IRS could provide a form that confirmed that someone reported X amount of income, and you should only be allowed to gamble X-Y for some nominal value of Y. This wouldn't be that hard to enforce (the time isn't too significant when you're dealing wi…

I have a huge horse in this fight, because I work for an online casino/slot machine manufacture. The following is my opinion, bl.a I know at least one physical casino where the tax authorities are very happy looking the other way, as patrons gamble tons of dirty cash. They do look very intently on the income and track it carefully because there is a percentage fee on gambling. Presumably that is why people are allowe…

> I have a huge horse in this fight

I love this mixed analogy.

Re: undefined

#59
post #53
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would tax authorities be happy to capture the tax on a few percent of illicit earnings rather than be able to take down a big RICO evader?

As it was explained to me it was a relatively simple way to recapture some additional tax funds. Also this wasn't the US, Denmark do prosecute criminals, but we don't have anything like RICO.

By RICO I just meant "big cases involving major criminal enterprises". (And I should have said "a big tax evader under RICO" rather than imply that they were evading RICO itself...)

Re: undefined

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely don't understand the draw of slot machines. I watched a woman playing a smartphone version on the subway; for three stops, she just kept hitting the "spin" button and watching the results. I admit to not knowing how they work, but do they typically have any more interaction than "pull lever, sporadically receive reward"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber This is the 101 explanation of the science at work. It's basically a conditioned response to dopamine caused by pulling the lever. At it's most basic level, if you are gambler, you pull the lever and get a neurotransmitter reward.

See also: training my dogs. It is even referred to by some as turning training "into a slot machine". At first one rewards the dog every time they do what was asked. Later, the rewards are only sporadically given (the slot machine). You do a thing, maybe some coins or a piece of meat will come out. But the dog will continue to do what was asked even as the treats taper off. Eventually, out of habit and conditioning, the dog does what was asked without rewards being handed out. Also see also: the work of Pavlov.

The moral of the story is that if there were no profit motive on the part of the casinos, eventually gamblers could be conditioned to sit at a slot machine that has had the payout slot removed, thus explaining the woman playing "no payout" slots on her phone. I've often joked that my dogs must ask themselves sometimes, "he tells me to sit and my butt just hits the ground. Why? What's wrong with me?" One might get the same response from the woman were she able to give you an honest answer. Like my dogs, she has probably long since forgotten why she even plays slots on her phone.

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