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Twitter suspends alt-right figureheads

bbc.com

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Re: Twitter suspends alt-right figureheads

#241

Post by patorjk »

duncanawoods wrote: post #203
FilterSweep wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The particular situation with pepe the frog is a bit more nuanced than news sources let on. He went from "Feels Bad, Man" comics to being very frequently photoshopped with 3rd reich / swastikas / other neo-nazi logos. Pepe is an interesting case because it brings up the discrepancy between trolling (messing with others in "bad fun") and actual people who vehemently support and push aggressively hateful messages.

>> very frequently photoshopped with 3rd reich This really is one of the more ridiculous Clinton campaign talking points that just made them look very out of touch. Pepe is a common meme template. Of the thousands of Pepes that I have unwillingly seen, none were neo-nazi except those in articles accusing Pepe of being a neo-nazi symbol. However, if you go to a deliberately offensive chan then sure, you will find ever…

This has been my experience too. I've been baffled at the coverage of Pepe as a hate symbol. I had seen it around on the internet for years. To me it was just another meme. The idea of it being a hate symbol came off to me almost as propaganda.

Re: Twitter suspends alt-right figureheads

#242

Post by striking »

FilterSweep wrote: post #215
striking wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point to some of those actions? I'm having trouble finding any evidence that shows they should be banned. Now, I think their viewpoints are disgusting too. But their views don't affect people, their actions do.

Have you suddenly lost your ability to create a relevant Google/DDG query? I can't, for the life of me, understand how you can't find evidence (example of Alt-right figurehead Milo Yiannopoulos): http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/leslie-jones-twitter-tro... Now, whether he should be banned for what he did is up for contention. But he knows what he did, and he knows how he attacked her.

Yiannopoulos was banned months ago. I'm talking about the current article and the views and actions of those who were freshly banned.

Re: Twitter suspends alt-right figureheads

#243

Post by FilterSweep »

adekok wrote: post #174
kelukelugames wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an able bodied straight male working in tech, I don't understand how any man can be offended by the killallmen hashtag. I don't feel threatened. They can't even hurt my feelings. Offended men must be very soft and have small dongles.

Here's a simple test. Take someone's rhetoric, like "killallmen". And replace the target with "Jews". If the updated statement feels racist and evil, then the original is also racist and evil. There's an entire subreddit devoted to this idea: https://www.reddit.com/r/menkampf/ It's eye-opening just how racist many "mainstream" comments are.

Not to detract from your main message, but much of #killallmen was actually males from 4Chan during "Operation Lollipop" (source is a quick Google away off the quoted words). They also had #BanFathersDay trending

Re: Twitter suspends alt-right figureheads

#244

Post by narrowrail »

throwaway9801 wrote: post #92
rayiner wrote: post #58

Doesn't Twitter allow actual terrorists to post? https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/...

Just so long as they don't post anything supporting Trump.

Zing!

Seriously though, if we have to have these political (tech-related if you stretch) discussions on HN, these green accounts should not be allowed to participate.

Re: Twitter suspends alt-right figureheads

#245

Post by adekok »

dmschulman wrote: post #207
adekok wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all the people downvoting, it's true: https://twitter.com/hashtag/killallmen About half of the tweets are serious "killallmen" comments. The other half are people complaining about it. And, complaining that twitter won't do anything, despite their terms of service saying such behavior is ban-worthy. Or look at twitter banning Milo... because other people engaged in harassment. People who had no clear tie to Milo.…

You're being intellectually disingenuous to believe that #killallmen is a legitimate threat of violence towards men. Find me some examples of violent feminists lynching and murdering men on the basis of feminist dogma. Meanwhile, those with racist, bigoted, homophobic, and anti-semitic viewpoints continue to commit actual hate crimes, murders, campaigns of intimidation, and worse. So yeah, you're making a typical str…

> You're being intellectually disingenuous to believe that #killallmen is a legitimate threat of violence towards men

Many (not all) of the people who say this really do believe it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCUM_Manifesto

http://www.dailywire.com/news/8386/feminist-journalist-all-m...

> Find me some examples of violent feminists lynching and murdering men on the basis of feminist dogma.

How about violence towards men, based on their dogma? See Jordan Peterson in Toronto, among many others.

> Meanwhile, those with racist, bigoted, homophobic, and anti-semitic viewpoints continue to commit actual hate crimes, murders, campaigns of intimidation, and worse.

Which are all bad. And should be stopped.

But you're being intellectually disingenous if you believe that fighting all bigotry is bad, because some bigots are more violent than others.

> So yeah, you're making a typical strawman argument to deflect legitimate criticism and turn the conversation away from the topic at hand.

Only if you ignore all facts and reason.

Sorry.

> Not worth engaging you further on this point, but if you want to discuss the topic at hand, I'm all ears.

i.e. you don't want to admit to the bigotry and hostility I dislike, because you think it's not as bad as the bigotry and hostility you dislike. And, you're so full of yourself, that you're unwilling to learn from people who disagree with you. People who just might have reasons for their opinions.

In this mindset, the good people are (by definition) good, and can do no wrong. The bad people are (by definition) bad, and can do no right. You don't need to engage the bad people as people, because they're evil and despicable. You can just dismiss them out of hand.

Or, you can do what Daryl Davis did. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis

A black man befriended KKK members, talked to them as people. He used friendliness, along with facts and reason, to convince them that racism was wrong.

Re: Twitter suspends alt-right figureheads

#246

Post by tomp »

legodt wrote: post #219
tomp wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even thinking of "whites" as "privileged" is racism. In reality, different people are different (shocker, I know). Obama's family (half-black) is much more privileged than many white straight men that are homeless. If instead of race you focused on circumstances that actually matter (bad family background, poverty, uneducated, jobless), you'd achieve much more.

Please read this: http://occupywallstreet.net/story/explaining-white-privilege...

Everyone is privileged in some ways. But just because you find one way in which a person is privileged, it doesn't mean that that fact trumps all other person's circumstances. Yes, in the US, a white homeless person might be better off that a black homeless person. But to speak of "white privilege" in general is to disregard or deny all other circumstances, except race.

Re: Twitter suspends alt-right figureheads

#247

Post by lotsoflumens »

psyc wrote: post #222
mwill wrote: post #14

I can only see this as furthering the echo chamber that caused many to be so blindsided by Trumps victory. I would like to see specifically why these people were suspended. If they're engaged in harassment obviously the suspension should hold up. If it really is just mass reporting for political speech (I've had friends msging 'targets' for reporting purely for them admitting to voting for Trump), I can only see it a…

From what I see in my feed, it seems 100% of "progressives" have doubled down on their hyperbolic, established, in-group rhetoric. I followed everyone that I follow because they are programmers, not because they are "progressives". But from looking at my feed, one would think that I deliberately set out to create a radical SJW echo chamber for myself.

Exactly the same here. You wrote my thoughts perfectly.

It's sad actually.

Re: Twitter suspends alt-right figureheads

#248

Post by LyndsySimon »

Mithaldu wrote: post #235

Did you even read the words you quoted? Please do so again, try to not skip any.

I think you're missing the point.

I'm trying to say that that from this side of the aisle, it certainly seems that the prevailing opinion amongst Democrats is that the Republican Party is full of terrible people.

Re: Twitter suspends alt-right figureheads

#249

Post by SolaceQuantum »

tomp wrote: post #213
legodt wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you be racist against the ruling, privileged class? Sure, white people can have it bad too, but we still have all the privilige and automatic perks. It isn't bigotry as much as self defense against how many white people are still deeply entrenched in racism. As a whole, white people are still oppressors.

Even thinking of "whites" as "privileged" is racism. In reality, different people are different (shocker, I know). Obama's family (half-black) is much more privileged than many white straight men that are homeless. If instead of race you focused on circumstances that actually matter (bad family background, poverty, uneducated, jobless), you'd achieve much more.

Racial conflict in America is something that occurs and has modern repercussions. Race matters to a lot of people and should be recognized as having an axiom of privilege not unlike class (which you broght up), gender identity, and sexuality. If you don't believe that different skin colors are treated differently in America I beg you to speak with myself or another person of color of how they have been outsided or treated in uncomfortable and unpleasant ways for no other reason than their skin color. Alternatively, we can examine why black people are jailed for lesser offenses than whites, regardless of class.

Re: Twitter suspends alt-right figureheads

#250

Post by maxerickson »

nameless912 wrote: post #16
module0000 wrote: post #3

People love having their speech limited, I'm sure this will work out great for twitter.

This isn't the limitation of free speech, this is a private company telling one of its users that they aren't welcome due to their behavior. It's like if you were at a store and started soapboxing about loudly right in front of the register, the manager of the store is 100% allowed to ask you to leave. Freedom of speech means your speech isn't illegal , not that you will suffer no consequences for it. ETA: some peopl…

The comment you replied to doesn't say free speech and doesn't invoke the constitution.

They are talking about the comedy club where the owner permanently bans anyone who makes jokes on certain topics. People stop going to it.

Which I think Twitter is going to have to have some standards about what sort of behavior they allow, it's just that there is risk of going too far and making the platform boring and useless. Banning accounts used for harassment is not going too far. Banning accounts because some arbitrary number of people don't like what they say probably is.

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