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Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

nytimes.com

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Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#51

Post by solipsism »

ThomPete wrote: post #11

I don't believe he is in denial at all. In fact the article strikes me as more of the same reason why so many voted for Trump. The people who write these articles just can't accept the idea that people didn't vote for Trump unless they were tricked into it, or were fed lies. The idea that because they have a different reality they based their votes on never occurred to them. What fake news do is reinoforce what peopl…

Is this the new meme now? Things we don't agree with are "more of the same thing that got Trump elected"?

What fake news do is reinoforce what people already believe to be true

Sure. And it also reinforces things people don't yet know (because it's fake) but which fits into one's preexisting worldview. It's a multiplicative factor. An amplification.

The claim by the article is actually very measured -- that fake news is a part of the whole picture. Do you really disagree with that?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#52

Post by mark_l_watson »

I don't trust the main stream media at all. As part of my long term research on NLP + text mining, I got in the habit of using English language news article from around the world as a text corpus. As part of this process I noticed the disconnect to US coverage compared to foreign news sources. Realizing that everyone has their own agenda, this experience still makes me sceptical of our news.

That said, I am also very sceptical of what I read on the web. I follow several people's blogs and what they post on social media because over the years what they say usually turns out to be correct.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#53

Post by lordCarbonFiber »

MK999 wrote: post #31
RankingMember wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NYT? Really? I would agree if you were describing Huffington Post or various other left-wing rags, but the NYT is pretty far from a Democratic Propaganda paper.

12 Trump hit pieces in one day alone. More like establishment propaganda paper, I don't think they would have given Jeb Bush or Rubio such a hard time.

How, I wonder, do you report on a candidate, who we have a recording bragging about sexual assault, and avoid a "hit piece"? To make a derogatory article attacking trump literally all you have to do is quote what he's said on the record; No editorializing necessary.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#54

Post by mc32 »

makomk wrote: post #34
mc32 wrote: post #9

I think it's too early to tell if these fake stories had any effect on people's political leanings, so diving in without knowing much about it is a bit of a different kind of fake news. It's hunches and opinions without critical examination. Now it's definitely a question to ask but I'm afraid it's being asked as a way to explain Hillary's loss because it's easier to find a scapegoat than look introspectively --and D…

It doesn't matter whether the fake stories actually had any effect on people's political leanings, because the media narrative is that they did. Ultimately, the mainstream media are in denial. Every single media organisation backed Clinton, including ones that had never backed a presidential candidate before, they published articles pointing to this as reason to vote for her whilst insisting that it was ridiculous to…

My favorite plausible one was the one where supposedly back in the 90s Trump said "he'd run as a Repub because they're the most gullible". I found it amusing that Hollywood actors/actresses tweeted it in a non-jokey way.

And yes, it is telling all their examples are about ones which targeted Hillary.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#55

Post by wavefunction »

a_humean wrote: post #45
bluejekyll wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't get that sense from the article. It was all about influence. False stories influence people's opinions, and that may have encouraged voters to turn out or not for their candidate. There was a lot of false and misleading information distributed online during this election, and literally spoken by the candidates (one more than another). The biggest lie is actually at the heart of Trump's campaign, that he can…

Except to be fair to the Dems and the Clinton campaign, they did have proposals and white papers addressing exactly these communities. For example, a proposal to invest $30 billion into coal mining communities within the Appalachia regions with promises for infrastructure investment and private business investment, and retraining former and current miners into new skilled occupations. Of course all of this pales in c…

Hillary also was resistant to the $15 minimum wage which would make a _huge_ difference for a lot of folks in the countryside. Hillary of course wanted to treat them like second-class citizens with only a $12 minimum.

Who's going to go read white-papers after that sort of offer?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#56

Post by eggie »

a_humean wrote: post #45
bluejekyll wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't get that sense from the article. It was all about influence. False stories influence people's opinions, and that may have encouraged voters to turn out or not for their candidate. There was a lot of false and misleading information distributed online during this election, and literally spoken by the candidates (one more than another). The biggest lie is actually at the heart of Trump's campaign, that he can…

Except to be fair to the Dems and the Clinton campaign, they did have proposals and white papers addressing exactly these communities. For example, a proposal to invest $30 billion into coal mining communities within the Appalachia regions with promises for infrastructure investment and private business investment, and retraining former and current miners into new skilled occupations. Of course all of this pales in c…

I find it incredible that even living in the liberal echo chamber I never heard news about this proposal! I am even from Appalachia!

Part of the problem is that those in the media forgot about people who are different from them--- for whom those $30 billion could have meant the difference between permanent regional decline and a new start.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#57

Post by solipsism »

solipsism wrote: post #51
ThomPete wrote: post #11

I don't believe he is in denial at all. In fact the article strikes me as more of the same reason why so many voted for Trump. The people who write these articles just can't accept the idea that people didn't vote for Trump unless they were tricked into it, or were fed lies. The idea that because they have a different reality they based their votes on never occurred to them. What fake news do is reinoforce what peopl…

Is this the new meme now? Things we don't agree with are "more of the same thing that got Trump elected"? What fake news do is reinoforce what people already believe to be true Sure. And it also reinforces things people don't yet know (because it's fake) but which fits into one's preexisting worldview. It's a multiplicative factor. An amplification. The claim by the article is actually very measured -- that fake news…

Oops, didn't read the other comments. Apparently it's already established you didn't even read the article.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#58

Post by eggie »

a_humean wrote: post #45
bluejekyll wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't get that sense from the article. It was all about influence. False stories influence people's opinions, and that may have encouraged voters to turn out or not for their candidate. There was a lot of false and misleading information distributed online during this election, and literally spoken by the candidates (one more than another). The biggest lie is actually at the heart of Trump's campaign, that he can…

Except to be fair to the Dems and the Clinton campaign, they did have proposals and white papers addressing exactly these communities. For example, a proposal to invest $30 billion into coal mining communities within the Appalachia regions with promises for infrastructure investment and private business investment, and retraining former and current miners into new skilled occupations. Of course all of this pales in c…

I find it incredible that even living in the liberal echo chamber I never heard news about this proposal! I am even from Appalachia!

Part of the problem is that those in the media forgot about people who are different from them--- for whom those $30 billion could have meant the difference between permanent regional decline and a new start.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#59

Post by rdtsc »

Am I reading between the lines correctly, is she saying Trump won because his supporters read about lizard people on Facebook?

Speaking of denial, wonder where on a realness gradient she puts NYTimes or CNN?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#60

Post by eggie »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #52

I don't trust the main stream media at all. As part of my long term research on NLP + text mining, I got in the habit of using English language news article from around the world as a text corpus. As part of this process I noticed the disconnect to US coverage compared to foreign news sources. Realizing that everyone has their own agenda, this experience still makes me sceptical of our news. That said, I am also very…

Would you characterize the disconnect you found a bit more?
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