Live data from Hacker News

Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

nytimes.com

31–40 of 175 posts

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#31
post #5

The Times is in denial that anyone considers it anything other than a mixture of Democratic party propaganda and clickbait legacy media. The stats are not looking good for them and dying industries always lash out reflexively and ineffectively at random opponents.

The NYT? Really? I would agree if you were describing Huffington Post or various other left-wing rags, but the NYT is pretty far from a Democratic Propaganda paper.

12 Trump hit pieces in one day alone. More like establishment propaganda paper, I don't think they would have given Jeb Bush or Rubio such a hard time.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#32
We are all in denial.

As a non-FB user, I hit every day a Facebook captcha to test if I'm a bot, each time I land near a Facebook site. When it's not a captcha, a panel hides a third of the Facebook page.

I have a "shadow" empty FB account that I sometimes use: if I'm logged in, anything I watch online ends up polluting recommendations and suggested sites. I looked up information on Syria and Trump the other day - I now have creepy sites displayed on my suggested sites. I also get giant "YOU ARE NOW QUITTING FACEBOOK" alerts anytime I try to click a link to, yes, go to this address.

We all obsess on Google/Apple for privacy and yet do not hold Facebook to any standard regarding an open, honest web.

I feel we're all getting slowly conditioned by Facebook (and others) to stay siloed. To fear that the web we browse will have "consequences" and that we should avoid being curious altogether.

It's by now clear that the entire purpose of FB is to build a "unified profile" that advertisers can track on- and offline.

We're all in denial on the consequences of this unified tracking. If we were in the Renaissance, anonymous publications like Spinoza's would be impossible. Free speech and opinion _requires_ freedom to change mind, wander around.

This has to stop.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#33
I'm scared people are going to keep pushing for social media to implement stronger filters.

I believe very strongly that the free flow of information (even when it's just wrong) is critical. Information gives people power, but withholding information takes power away. If a company like Facebook implements the filter, we're giving that power to them and hoping they are ambivalent.

The solution to fake news is for people to learn how to live in this new world. There used to be only a handful of news organizations, but now there are an infant amount of them. This is GOOD, it's democratizing, but it puts a burden on us as citizens, and consumers of information to understand the motivations of the authors.

This is an opportunity we should be happy to have and be scared of technological or manual solutions that threaten it.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#34
post #9

I think it's too early to tell if these fake stories had any effect on people's political leanings, so diving in without knowing much about it is a bit of a different kind of fake news. It's hunches and opinions without critical examination. Now it's definitely a question to ask but I'm afraid it's being asked as a way to explain Hillary's loss because it's easier to find a scapegoat than look introspectively --and D…

It doesn't matter whether the fake stories actually had any effect on people's political leanings, because the media narrative is that they did. Ultimately, the mainstream media are in denial. Every single media organisation backed Clinton, including ones that had never backed a presidential candidate before, they published articles pointing to this as reason to vote for her whilst insisting that it was ridiculous to believe they could in any way be biased towards her. They were absolutely certain she would win, mocking those who though otherwise. They were wrong. Rather than look inwards, they found a scapegoat.

That's why they don't care about the 130,000 retweets for a fake claim that people were chanting "We hate Muslims, we hate blacks, we want our great country back" at a Trump rally from a known British hoaxer, or the quarter of a million for a photoshop of Trump's parents in KKK outfits, or any of the other fakes that don't fit the narrative.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#35

I don't believe he is in denial at all. In fact the article strikes me as more of the same reason why so many voted for Trump. The people who write these articles just can't accept the idea that people didn't vote for Trump unless they were tricked into it, or were fed lies. The idea that because they have a different reality they based their votes on never occurred to them. What fake news do is reinoforce what peopl…

I didn't get that sense from the article. It was all about influence. False stories influence people's opinions, and that may have encouraged voters to turn out or not for their candidate. There was a lot of false and misleading information distributed online during this election, and literally spoken by the candidates (one more than another). The biggest lie is actually at the heart of Trump's campaign, that he can…

I dont' believe he can bring them back either but it wasn't based on a lie and I am pretty sure he means it which is why he wants to dig into the resources and rebuild infrastructure.

That does not make it a lie anymore than "yes we can" does.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#36
post #9

I think it's too early to tell if these fake stories had any effect on people's political leanings, so diving in without knowing much about it is a bit of a different kind of fake news. It's hunches and opinions without critical examination. Now it's definitely a question to ask but I'm afraid it's being asked as a way to explain Hillary's loss because it's easier to find a scapegoat than look introspectively --and D…

>> I think it's too early to tell if these fake stories had any effect on people's political leanings

Facebook isn't the only place people get 'fake news'. Just look at their peer groups. My cousin is a member of a labor union and they tell all kind of goofy tales about what will happen is candidate X gets elected or candidate Y gets elected. You should hear the coffee shop rambling the old men do at Tim Horton's in the morning. And you should heard the rambling the young kids do at the independent coffee shop at night. All of it is just FUD.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#37
post #5

The Times is in denial that anyone considers it anything other than a mixture of Democratic party propaganda and clickbait legacy media. The stats are not looking good for them and dying industries always lash out reflexively and ineffectively at random opponents.

The NYT? Really? I would agree if you were describing Huffington Post or various other left-wing rags, but the NYT is pretty far from a Democratic Propaganda paper.

> the NYT is pretty far from a Democratic Propaganda paper.

If that's true, why did the New York Times just apologize for their abysmal coverage of this election cycle?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/13/us/elections/to-our-reader...

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#39
His job is not get this or that candidate elected. It's more like the New York Times is in denial blaming everybody but the poor candidate they endorsed for her failure to get elected.

The New York Times was also in denial during the campaign dismissing Trump's candidacy as a joke, then giving Hillary 99% chances to win.

Had they taken Trump seriously from the get-go and try to do a proper rebuttal with fact checking and not just "Pepe the frog is a fascist symbol", maybe the outcome would have been different.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#40

Fake news on Facebook? I'd rather be equally if not more worried about fake news on mainstream media outlets.

That will be one of the issues that Facebook will need to deal with, if they're serious about this.

From the article:

>Worse, Facebook doesn’t flag or mark credible news websites

Okay, so who's judging what is a credible news website/source? Is CNN a credible news source, is The Huffington Post, how about the National Enquirer? People can argue that CNN get so many facts wrong, that they aren't a credible news source.

If you're an expect in a field, you tend to notice that the media often make massive mistakes or gross misinterpretations when dealing with news regarding your field. Now realise that they make the same mistakes for pretty much any other field. Are ANY mainstream media actually credible, given the knowledge that they misunderstand and misrepresent an incredible amount of topics every single day.

Post reply on HN