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Review: Touch Bar MacBook Pros give an expensive glimpse at the Mac’s future

arstechnica.com

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Re: Review: Touch Bar MacBook Pros give an expensive glimpse at the Mac’s future

#61

Post by davidf18 »

cglace wrote: post #56
little_data wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think replacement of magsafe with usb-c is a step in the right direction. Hopefully one day products will all have the same ports...unless there's a cooler faster usb-d that has even more function. Maybe one day there will be no ports at all.

Magsafe is/was my favorite mac feature.

Actually, after a few months it is a problem because the adapter doesn't stay on when you're on a table in a coffee shop and the cord is hanging over the edge because you've got papers that you're typing from.

Re: Review: Touch Bar MacBook Pros give an expensive glimpse at the Mac’s future

#62

Post by WorldMaker »

CountSessine wrote: post #58
WorldMaker wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Third option is to buy a "Signature Edition" [1][2] from the Microsoft Store (or participating retail stores such as some Best Buys and Staples, I think, if you ask nicely to someone that has the right sort of a clue). Microsoft's Signature Edition program expressly forbids selling the machine with anything more than a clean Windows install. It's definitely what I've started recommending anytime anyone mentions to me…

Interesting - so they would actually use a different/clean EFI image on those? If so, then I agree - that's by far the best way to get a Windows laptop. I'll pass on the recommendation next time someone asks me. It does seem to be a bit more expensive, though; at least for Canadians. I'm seeing a $700 delta between what I'm seeing there and on the Dell store. Is that usual?

That's typical PC par for the course of different stores selling roughly the same machine at different prices. Just like some of the bad old days some of the OEM's Signature Edition PCs aren't ever quite one-for-one comparable models to their website/direct sales (or even to some of the other stores they sell in). It has long been the case that manufacturers have slightly different model numbers and subtly different configurations for every single retail channel they interact with so you can't always tell if you are getting a good deal or not.

There also is a case that some of the manufacturers do get enough advertising kickbacks from the junk they bundle with the computer that you do see some of that "savings" passed back to you as a consumer with the premium added to the Signature Editions.

So far as I'm aware (merely as a consumer) Signature Edition does seem to require a clean EFI image as well. I've seen reports that things like Lenovo's EFI problems are things the Signature Edition team screens for (for instance this PC Mag article specifically mentioning Superfish [1]), but I can't tell you how thoroughly they check, just that I feel sure they try.

[1] http://www.pcworld.com/article/2887213/microsofts-signature-...

Re: Review: Touch Bar MacBook Pros give an expensive glimpse at the Mac’s future

#63

Post by on_and_off »

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #10
headcanon wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's definitely playing the long game here. When the retinas came out, the absence of an ethernet port was a bit inconvenient for me, but now I don't miss it at all. It's possible that in a few years, when this model matures and goes down in price, the touch bar gets more wide support, and everything uses USB-C, then it will make a lot more sense to get one.

Yeah I'm very convinced this is going to happen. At the same time, at least for me, I can't afford to wait for this utopia of single-connectors. I need to be able to plug in my daily cords and the last time I had to deal with dongles I lost them all over the place. I do think it was a big misstep that their flagship, brand new phone can't connect to their flagship, brand new laptop without an adapter that has to be b…

Kinda weird that the last nexus & pixel fit more naturally with the last macbook pro :)

Re: Review: Touch Bar MacBook Pros give an expensive glimpse at the Mac’s future

#64

Post by thefalcon »

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #10
headcanon wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's definitely playing the long game here. When the retinas came out, the absence of an ethernet port was a bit inconvenient for me, but now I don't miss it at all. It's possible that in a few years, when this model matures and goes down in price, the touch bar gets more wide support, and everything uses USB-C, then it will make a lot more sense to get one.

Yeah I'm very convinced this is going to happen. At the same time, at least for me, I can't afford to wait for this utopia of single-connectors. I need to be able to plug in my daily cords and the last time I had to deal with dongles I lost them all over the place. I do think it was a big misstep that their flagship, brand new phone can't connect to their flagship, brand new laptop without an adapter that has to be b…

When was the last time you plugged your iPhone in to your computer? I don't think I've ever plugged my current phone in to my computer since syncs and backs up to the cloud anyway for me.

Re: Review: Touch Bar MacBook Pros give an expensive glimpse at the Mac’s future

#65

Post by otterley »

loco5niner wrote: post #47
cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #23

People bitch about dongles but if you think about it, who would make this progress if Apple doesn't? Apple is probably the only consumer tech hardware company out there that can do this. I almost think it's their responsibility to push the boundary. People make fun of the term "Courage" and I thought that was funny at first too. But the more I think about it the more I get what he's trying to say. Right now NO ONE ot…

> And pros don't complain about their tools. Why wouldn't they complain? Because it's unprofessional? Nonsense. If a tool isn't up to it's designed task (especially if it used to be),complaining is certainly in order.

I think he misunderstood the venerable proverb, "a bad workman blames his tools." It's pithy, and people often overlook the the "bad" adjective and misinterpret its meaning.

Re: Review: Touch Bar MacBook Pros give an expensive glimpse at the Mac’s future

#66

Post by khedoros1 »

Razengan wrote: post #27
cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #23

People bitch about dongles but if you think about it, who would make this progress if Apple doesn't? Apple is probably the only consumer tech hardware company out there that can do this. I almost think it's their responsibility to push the boundary. People make fun of the term "Courage" and I thought that was funny at first too. But the more I think about it the more I get what he's trying to say. Right now NO ONE ot…

It's more baffling when "pros" who claim to have been loyal to Apple for decades but aghast at getting only USB-C, forgetting that Apple have done this before, way back in 1998: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy-free_PC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMac#Influence And again with the removal of the CD drives and Ethernet ports. Does anybody really miss any of those things? I'm sure the loss of RS-232 ports and flop…

> Does anybody really miss any of those things?

Yes? I take it that you don't? I have a few hundred CDs, DVDs, and Blu-rays that I like having access to. Generally, I'll access a floppy once, and just store an image on a USB drive for later use. My building is so jammed with wifi signals that sometimes the best option is to string an ethernet cable across the room, and the access point can't be configured over a wireless interface anyhow. I use serial and parallel connections (DB9 and DB25) to access various little hardware projects and pieces of network hardware I've got around.

I've got USB-based hardware for most of those. For others, I keep around some older computers. It feels "clean" to have a computer with fewer ports, but sometimes I wish I'd chosen a machine with a few more of the connections that my previous machine had.

Re: Review: Touch Bar MacBook Pros give an expensive glimpse at the Mac’s future

#67

Post by BinaryIdiot »

thefalcon wrote: post #64
BinaryIdiot wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I'm very convinced this is going to happen. At the same time, at least for me, I can't afford to wait for this utopia of single-connectors. I need to be able to plug in my daily cords and the last time I had to deal with dongles I lost them all over the place. I do think it was a big misstep that their flagship, brand new phone can't connect to their flagship, brand new laptop without an adapter that has to be b…

When was the last time you plugged your iPhone in to your computer? I don't think I've ever plugged my current phone in to my computer since syncs and backs up to the cloud anyway for me.

I haven't in years but everyone who isn't technically savvy in my family still does. I don't know if that's indicative of anything larger than my anecdote but I work with people who are very involved with technology who still sync all of their stuff, with a cord, using iTunes and their iPhone 6s / 7.

No idea how common this is but I feel like it's common enough that it should have been handled better.

Re: Review: Touch Bar MacBook Pros give an expensive glimpse at the Mac’s future

#68

Post by ksk »

neotek wrote: post #59
lightbyte wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did it because the lightning port is proprietary and digital. You need to pay them to license it, and they can put DRM on it when they eventually choose to. That's main reason that they will never admit.

I keep hearing this silly conspiracy theory, but the numbers just don't add up. Apple makes the princely sum of $4 per accessory on MFI licensing fees. Last year, those licensing fees made up less than one fifth of one percent of their revenue, a number so tiny that it doesn't even show up as a line item in their financial reports. It would be such a spectacularly stupid decision to jeopardise sales of the world's mo…

GP's point was that when Apple forces accessory makers to come to them for a license, they can arbitrarily chose to deny a license according to their whim. Apple (like many other companies, to be fair) uses product announcements as a way to force a positive press coverage bubble during product launches since only people who generally write nice things about them are given the products to review. It would be easy to see how Apple will 'delay' licensing of companies that don't play ball and produce accessories compatible with the new phones.

>What possible conceivable benefit could there be for them to sneakily try and add it back now?

They have always been pro DRM. For e.g. They force you to be on a constant iOS update treadmill, where they have made it impossible to downgrade iOS, and almost impossible to avoid updating it with the constantly popups to update.

Re: Review: Touch Bar MacBook Pros give an expensive glimpse at the Mac’s future

#69

Post by khedoros1 »

dpark wrote: post #41
rplst8 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was plenty of progress in the laptop market before Apple became the power-player that it is today. Did Apple play a part? Yes. Did many of the other companies that have since gone out of business, merged, or still exist today? Yes. Personally, I don't think touch interfaces are progress - for laptops (or desktops). There are many reasons this is true, but the biggest one for me is that your finger obscures thin…

> There are many reasons this is true, but the biggest one for me is that your finger obscures things on the display when you use it, and there is often very poor or no tactile feedback. This is a poor argument against touch interfaces on laptops/desktops. This argument applies 100% to every touch interface, and yet we use touch interfaces for phones, and tablets, and modern point-of-sale systems, and the decent car…

Tactile feedback isn't a compelling argument against touchscreens on laptops and desktops?

The touch interface on my phone and tablet compromises some of the usability of the input to gain a ton of flexibility and portability. Laptops compromise some comfort and size to make it feasible to stick a keyboard and pointer device into a thin, portable computer.

The various compromises are worth it in some situations and very out-of-place in others. I don't really see the point of a touch interface for general desktop/laptop use.

Re: Review: Touch Bar MacBook Pros give an expensive glimpse at the Mac’s future

#70

Post by desipenguin »

johansch wrote: post #11
headcanon wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's definitely playing the long game here. When the retinas came out, the absence of an ethernet port was a bit inconvenient for me, but now I don't miss it at all. It's possible that in a few years, when this model matures and goes down in price, the touch bar gets more wide support, and everything uses USB-C, then it will make a lot more sense to get one.

They have gone too far this time. This is far beyond the usual expensive inconvenience dongle cost etc that we're used to seeing from them. They just want to game us. It's basically financial domination at this time. How hard could it really be to make a basic Linux desktop environment work sorta close enough to OS X to make enough people switch to finance further development? My quick and dirty estimate is that 50 g…

Deepin Desktop Environment
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