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Visual Studio for Mac

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Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#171

Post by intoverflow2 »

FlyingSnake wrote: post #92
SiVal wrote: post #17

So Microsoft is treating the Mac more seriously as a professional platform while Apple is treating it less seriously? I'm not saying this in a snarky way; I mean it literally as a change of corporate strategies in both companies. Microsoft seems to be saying, If you are a pro mainly using the Mac for professional work, we want to do a better job of empowering you, and Apple seems to be saying, If you are a pro mainly…

> If you are a pro mainly using the Mac for professional work... This is extremely dishonest assessment that only 'Developers' do professional work. Mac is used by Engineers, CAD/CAM, designers, illustrators, artists, musicians, etc and to reduce it only to developers is disingenuous. I for one is happy with the new Mac and there are several people who've found it great for 'pro' use.

Weirdly from your list software developers are the only ones the New MBP can serve. It's got plenty of power to run XCode or a web dev environment.

Engineers, CAD, musicians, 3D artists all need more power than it provides and increasingly need CUDA cores.

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#172

Post by khedoros1 »

xrisk wrote: post #114
Kipters wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since we're talking about what is basically a rebrand of Xamarin Studio, the current release of Xamarin Studio for Mac uses the function keys for stepping in the debugger

Well, now they can use the touch bar to show those functions depending on context. Isn't that better overall for usability rather than having to remember keybinds for every action?

It seems like it would be better in the short term (don't have to learn the bindings), but worse in the long term if it's something you do often (no way to find the keys' edges without looking every time you press the key, with the occasional glance down again to correct for drift).

Whether that's "better overall" or not depends on individual usage patterns. Personally, I don't really stray from the alphanumeric part of the keyboard often, and I can rebind esc, so the Touchbar's mostly a moot point for me. My strongest reason to dislike it is that it adds yet another set of potential points of failure for the machine without providing (for my purposes) much benefit.

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#173

Post by tracker1 »

static_noise wrote: post #118
ubernostrum wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, a "pro" user who's actually used the new Macbook Pro weighs in: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/thomas-grove-carter/one-prof... Spoiler alert: he doesn't agree with the assessment of HN users who haven't actually used it.

That article is a typical example of "If it suits me, it must suit everybody." and your post is a good example for the no-true-Scotsman-fallacy of "Noone who _really_ used it dislikes it." All I really know about this is how I feel about it and I must admit that I am going to go back to the PC world when the time comes to replace my current MBP. The offerings in the PC world are not perfect for me but they suit me be…

I am in a similar situation... I bought my current MBP and will use it until it dies more than likely, but not sure if I'd buy another Mac. The touchpad on the MBP is second to none, which is what kept me this time but there's a massive premium there.

I use Mac, windows and Linux daily... And honestly the Mac is the most odd ui of the three for me. Having bash is pretty nice as is homebrew...

I'm really hoping MS puts similar effort into a Linux version, since I know I'm not the only one going that direction... Been considering it on my mbp...

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#174

Post by 72deluxe »

cageface wrote: post #153
Clane wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I want to know as somebody trying to learn C/C++, is Xcode good for somebody who is wanting to try their hand at bare metal stuff? I always hear how bad it is outside of app dev. but can it help me be productive compared to CLI environment or just using a text editor with nifty add-ons?

I've written a lot of C++ code in Xcode. Xcode is a pretty poor IDE in general but it works reasonably well for C++. IMO things like autocomplete and a graphical debugger are enough of a productivity boost that I wouldn't want to use a plain editor.

Yes, and the ability to find call references (who is calling this function, where is it used) from the drop-down menu is really helpful. I miss the ease of access to that sort of functionality in Visual Studio.

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#175

Post by adamlett »

pschastain wrote: post #168
adamlett wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding me? How can you not see that this is nothing more than an arbitrary habit that you've grown comfortable with? Imagine the function keys had never existed to begin with. Don't you think we would have come up with a different way of stepping through code with a debugger? I understand that it's annoying to have to change your habits, but you're a developer for crying out loud: Your job is literally to ch…

> an arbitrary habit that you've grown comfortable with You mean a workflow? Who are you (or anyone else) to decide what works best for me? Am I not capable of making my own decisions? Do I really need a hardware company making those choices for me?

Who are you (or anyone else) to decide what works best for me? Am I not capable of making my own decisions? Do I really need a hardware company making those choices for me?

Did you not read beyond my first sentence?

Who are we as programmers to decide what works best for our users? Were the clerks at the bank not capable of deciding for themselves if their pen and paper workflows worked better for them than the computer programs we made to replace them? The typographers of yore were almost certainly more comfortable and faster using a linotype machine than this new fangled desktop publishing software, that we invented. I simply cannot wrap my head around people in our profession who kick and scream because the march of progress once in a while makes their lifes a tiny bit uncomfortable for a short while.

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#176

Post by tracker1 »

jmkni wrote: post #156
adamlett wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding me? How can you not see that this is nothing more than an arbitrary habit that you've grown comfortable with? Imagine the function keys had never existed to begin with. Don't you think we would have come up with a different way of stepping through code with a debugger? I understand that it's annoying to have to change your habits, but you're a developer for crying out loud: Your job is literally to ch…

Well...pretty much everything you do is an arbitrary habit that you've grown comfortable with . Sleeping in a bed is an arbitrary habit that you've grown comfortable with , why not sleep on the floor, or in the bath? The fact is that when developing and debugging, the function keys represent the most efficient way of stepping through code, and a part of this is to do with their physical presence on the keyboard. I kn…

I must admit, I rarely use the function keys as they seem to be different everywhere... Mainly from years of VS usage, actually...

But I use the escape key hundreds of times a day.. not having that as a dedicated key will hinder me as much as removing the backspace key.. I mean nobody needs to go back, and you can just use the mouse with cut..

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#177

Post by sundvor »

Angostura wrote: post #124
jmkni wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm debugging in an IDE or through a browsers developer tools, I absolutely use the function keys to step through/into/out of code. What should I do instead? Serious question.

I would presume that if the application hasn't been updated for the Touchbar, the Touchbar would default to displaying ESC F1 F2 F3 F4 etc..

As a touch typist, can you please explain how that would work for me?

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#178

Post by intoverflow2 »

cm2187 wrote: post #25
SiVal wrote: post #17

So Microsoft is treating the Mac more seriously as a professional platform while Apple is treating it less seriously? I'm not saying this in a snarky way; I mean it literally as a change of corporate strategies in both companies. Microsoft seems to be saying, If you are a pro mainly using the Mac for professional work, we want to do a better job of empowering you, and Apple seems to be saying, If you are a pro mainly…

People aren't going to do development on a tablet or a smartphone anytime soon.

Don't speak too soon.

"Why would you buy a PC anymore?" - Tim Cook on the iPad Pro launch.

Don't be surprised if XCode for iPad Pro is a thing soon. It's becoming clear he sees iPads as the future of computing, it's all he uses personally and developing it's own apps is one of the last things it actually can't do.

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#179

Post by ubernostrum »

hvidgaard wrote: post #163
mobiuscog wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except he's coming at it with a strong bias: No matter what you think the specs say, the fact is the software and hardware are so well integrated it tears strips off "superior spec'd" Windows counterparts in the real world. This has always been true of Macs. Having used both lines of machines for many years, if I want raw power and 'specs' I use the PC.

His argument falls short the second you want to use non optimized software - he even touches upon this, but "I understand people need to use programs from other developers, but at some point they need to play catch up". This is rather difficult to take seriously. So you can efficiently do what Apple say you can do, but nothing else? That might work in his line of work, but it doesn't for the rest of the world.

For his use case there is a pairing of software and hardware optimized to work with each other.

In "professional" situations this is not, as I understand it, particularly unusual. And yet the unsuitability of the new MBP for "professional" use cases has been widely assumed on HN. It's interesting to see someone who actually has one of those use cases and has actually used the new MBP, weighing in to say "it works, and here's why". Not least because the level of hardware/software cooperation Apple can muster is a selling point for him, but has been ignored by all the "I'm a touch typist whose workflow consists exclusively of function keys, the touch bar makes this a worthless toy to me" noise coming from HN.

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#180

Post by adamlett »

jmkni wrote: post #156
adamlett wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding me? How can you not see that this is nothing more than an arbitrary habit that you've grown comfortable with? Imagine the function keys had never existed to begin with. Don't you think we would have come up with a different way of stepping through code with a debugger? I understand that it's annoying to have to change your habits, but you're a developer for crying out loud: Your job is literally to ch…

Well...pretty much everything you do is an arbitrary habit that you've grown comfortable with . Sleeping in a bed is an arbitrary habit that you've grown comfortable with , why not sleep on the floor, or in the bath? The fact is that when developing and debugging, the function keys represent the most efficient way of stepping through code, and a part of this is to do with their physical presence on the keyboard. I kn…

Sleeping in a bed is an arbitrary habit that you've grown comfortable with, why not sleep on the floor, or in the bath?

Because contrary to what you say, sleeping in a bed is not just an arbitrary habit. The bed is a special purpose piece of furniture, optimised for sleeping in. The use of f-key to step through a program is OTOH simply an accident of history. The f-keys were chosen because they were there. Had they not been, some other solution would have been invented, using the keys that were there, and (this is my point) the solution would have been just as good!

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