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Visual Studio for Mac

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Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#111

Post by Permit »

rl3 wrote: post #99

> At its heart, Visual Studio for Mac is a macOS counterpart of the Windows version of Visual Studio. Does it have a monolithic install and update process that's essentially a slow, bloated black box? That's my main turn-off with Visual Studio on Windows, and even more so with Windows itself. As soon as Microsoft figures out efficient installation and updates via CLI without the need to reboot, they'll dominate the d…

A smaller and componentized install was a major focus for Visual Studio 2017. There's some more detail here: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/visualstudio/2016/08/22/vis...

Smallest install is 500MB

.NET/C# install is ~3GB

I also believe you won't have to reboot with most installs.

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#112

Post by ygra »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #96
willtim wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the impression that WPF is pretty much on life support.

It's merged to Xaml not? And what do you want more for WPF? PS. According to me it was difficult to port the Graphic part of WPF to Linux/Mac.

XAML is just a way of writing object graphs in XML. It is not tied to WPF or anything (heck, we use it to represent user data and style information within GraphML).

And yes, XAML is used by more than WPF at this point (Silverlight, UWP, and possibly more).

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#113

Post by matt4077 »

pjmlp wrote: post #100
SiVal wrote: post #17

So Microsoft is treating the Mac more seriously as a professional platform while Apple is treating it less seriously? I'm not saying this in a snarky way; I mean it literally as a change of corporate strategies in both companies. Microsoft seems to be saying, If you are a pro mainly using the Mac for professional work, we want to do a better job of empowering you, and Apple seems to be saying, If you are a pro mainly…

For those of us that only care about XCode and Swift/Objective-C frameworks, Apple is doing just fine.

And those of us heavily dependent on UNIX tools just install homebrew and are fine as well. It's actually better than it ever was.

I have no idea what these self-appointed "pros" actually do. Their work seems to involve a awful lot of swapping hardware components, attaching peripherals in a jurisdiction that frowns upon adapters, and pressing ESC.

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#114

Post by xrisk »

Kipters wrote: post #88
Steeeve wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More than a few developers have spoken up on the issue here on HN. The escape key is commonly used, as are many other function keys. Other vendors have rolled out similar gadgets to apple and they've been rejected by the development community at large - which apple would have known because they don't implement things like that willy nilly.

Since we're talking about what is basically a rebrand of Xamarin Studio, the current release of Xamarin Studio for Mac uses the function keys for stepping in the debugger

Well, now they can use the touch bar to show those functions depending on context. Isn't that better overall for usability rather than having to remember keybinds for every action?

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#116

Post by jmkni »

coldtea wrote: post #63
rimantas wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is not saying anything like this, just a bunch of whiners twisting things. Just like they did after any Mac upgrade.

> WRONG. The removal of a dozen keys from an already gimped keyboard is decidedly anti-developer. I am a developer and I could not care less about function keys. Why the duck would developers need function keys? Even for Vim, the age-old advice is to remap Esc so that you keep your hands on the home row. A flexible multi-touch strip of context-aware keys can do much more things -- e.g. map debugger step moves when I'…

If I'm debugging in an IDE or through a browsers developer tools, I absolutely use the function keys to step through/into/out of code.

What should I do instead? Serious question.

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#117

Post by zardeh »

FlyingSnake wrote: post #92
SiVal wrote: post #17

So Microsoft is treating the Mac more seriously as a professional platform while Apple is treating it less seriously? I'm not saying this in a snarky way; I mean it literally as a change of corporate strategies in both companies. Microsoft seems to be saying, If you are a pro mainly using the Mac for professional work, we want to do a better job of empowering you, and Apple seems to be saying, If you are a pro mainly…

> If you are a pro mainly using the Mac for professional work... This is extremely dishonest assessment that only 'Developers' do professional work. Mac is used by Engineers, CAD/CAM, designers, illustrators, artists, musicians, etc and to reduce it only to developers is disingenuous. I for one is happy with the new Mac and there are several people who've found it great for 'pro' use.

I'm not sure how you got that out of his post.

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#118

Post by static_noise »

ubernostrum wrote: post #77
SiVal wrote: post #17

So Microsoft is treating the Mac more seriously as a professional platform while Apple is treating it less seriously? I'm not saying this in a snarky way; I mean it literally as a change of corporate strategies in both companies. Microsoft seems to be saying, If you are a pro mainly using the Mac for professional work, we want to do a better job of empowering you, and Apple seems to be saying, If you are a pro mainly…

Meanwhile, a "pro" user who's actually used the new Macbook Pro weighs in: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/thomas-grove-carter/one-prof... Spoiler alert: he doesn't agree with the assessment of HN users who haven't actually used it.

That article is a typical example of "If it suits me, it must suit everybody." and your post is a good example for the no-true-Scotsman-fallacy of "Noone who _really_ used it dislikes it."

All I really know about this is how I feel about it and I must admit that I am going to go back to the PC world when the time comes to replace my current MBP. The offerings in the PC world are not perfect for me but they suit me better. I bought my MBP because at the time it was actually the cheapest machine offering all those features at a high build quality. I didn't get into a dependency on OSX and am pretty confident that I can just migrate fully to Linux. So I guess I'm not _really_ a professional Mac user.

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#119

Post by Clane »

badminton1 wrote: post #67
madeofpalk wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're comparing Apples-to-Apples (seriously, pun not (originally) intended), Apple continues to rev on the XCode IDE every year adding more features to it. Most recently, they added a nifty visual memory debugger[1] and have taken another stab at device & certificate provisioning. [1]: http://useyourloaf.com/blog/xcode-visual-memory-debugger/

does it support reverse debugging yet?

What I want to know as somebody trying to learn C/C++, is Xcode good for somebody who is wanting to try their hand at bare metal stuff? I always hear how bad it is outside of app dev. but can it help me be productive compared to CLI environment or just using a text editor with nifty add-ons?

Re: Visual Studio for Mac

#120

Post by static_noise »

Kipters wrote: post #86
mobiuscog wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except he's coming at it with a strong bias: No matter what you think the specs say, the fact is the software and hardware are so well integrated it tears strips off "superior spec'd" Windows counterparts in the real world. This has always been true of Macs. Having used both lines of machines for many years, if I want raw power and 'specs' I use the PC.

I've also had the feeling he was strongly biased throughout the whole article

If you still feel the bias, you're not _really_ an Apple customer.
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