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U.S. judge rejects World Chess bid to block websites from airing moves

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. judge rejects World Chess bid to block websites from airing moves

#71

Post by jellicle »

dogma1138 wrote: post #67
mattkrause wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you can't copy facts, period. You can copyright facts that have been 'fixed in a tangible medium of expression' as long as there's some minimal element of creativity. Sheet music is copyrightable because the notes have been "fixed" onto a piece of paper. A recording of a band is copyrightable because the music has been "fixed" in the record, tape, CD, or other file. You can copyright a specific description of a c…

In the US, other copyright laws do allow you to copy right a database or any other compiled work, as long as there was work that was conducted in order to create it. This means that if you compile a database of open source material the database itself can we protected by copyright even if all of it's content is not protected by any copyright and is in the public domain. This is why for example in the UK a phonebook c…

> as long as there was work

Not work. Creativity. Big difference.

Re: U.S. judge rejects World Chess bid to block websites from airing moves

#72

Post by iaw »

seanalltogether wrote: post #61
CJKinni wrote: post #53

A lot of the comments here on copyright seem to be looking for answers to distinguish this from other copyright issues. Rather than summing up every copyright argument for or against, I thought I'd link to a fairly relevant case: Feist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_Publications,_Inc.,_v._R... . Feist is a case where a phone book company stole the data in a phone book, and began reselling it. It deals with publ…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Basketball_Ass%27n_v.... . > The district court held that Motorola and STATS did not infringe NBA's copyright because only facts from the broadcasts, not the broadcasts themselves were transmitted. The Second Circuit Court agreed with the district court's argument that the "[d]efendants provide purely factual information which any patron of an NBA game could acquire from the are…

I think this is a more correct case to apply.

The Feist case was about the expense accrued in aggregating the information and the incentive issues that arise if those efforts are not protected.

The NBA case was about the division of rights between the competition organizer and those attempting to report on it. Specifically, are the reporters required to delay their reporting efforts when the only information being reported generated by the event is factual.

If I understand correctly, this ruling doesn't preclude the event organizers from banning all electronic communication devices from the premises. It just prevents them from pursuing any civil penalties from those that report on the event.

Re: U.S. judge rejects World Chess bid to block websites from airing moves

#73

Post by greglindahl »

valleyer wrote: post #43
cheald wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They certainly claim to. The NFL loudly proclaims that "Any other use of this telecast or of any pictures, descriptions, or accounts of the game without the NFL's consent, is prohibited."

No idea why you are being downvoted. Regardless of whether it's actually enforceable, this threat is definitely aired during every NFL game. MLB too: "This copyrighted telecast is presented by authority of the Office of the Commissioner of Baseball. It may not be reproduced or retransmitted in any form, and the accounts and descriptions of this game may not be disseminated without express written consent."

Sorry, I turned on my TV 1 minute after that was displayed.

This issue is called "contract formation", and any HN reader who's shipped licensed software or had a website with terms of service should be aware that showing something that a user may or may not have seen is the worst possible way to try to form a contract. That's why creating an account on almost all websites has a checkbox that the user has to check, with text that you're agreeing to certain terms.

Re: U.S. judge rejects World Chess bid to block websites from airing moves

#74

Post by throwaway_yy2Di »

Apropos, to anyone who wants to watch the live moves, with expert commentary, they are here (this is the defendant from the Reuters story):

https://chess24.com/en/read/news/chess24-win-moscow-case-ann...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkTCNuQ2mGfW6-SpHpaze_g (direct link to livestream)

If you're looking for live computer engine lines, Steinar Gunderson offers that here, with 38 cores running Stockfish:

http://analysis.sesse.net/

As well as PGN files (live-updated):

http://pgn.sesse.net/

Re: U.S. judge rejects World Chess bid to block websites from airing moves

#75

Post by freditup »

throwaway_yy2Di wrote: post #74

Apropos, to anyone who wants to watch the live moves, with expert commentary, they are here (this is the defendant from the Reuters story): https://chess24.com/en/read/news/chess24-win-moscow-case-ann... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkTCNuQ2mGfW6-SpHpaze_g (direct link to livestream) If you're looking for live computer engine lines, Steinar Gunderson offers that here, with 38 cores running Stockfish: http://analy…

Also useful, the highlights from the first game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Y_h3eZQ-j0

Re: U.S. judge rejects World Chess bid to block websites from airing moves

#77

Post by conistonwater »

freditup wrote: post #75
throwaway_yy2Di wrote: post #74

Apropos, to anyone who wants to watch the live moves, with expert commentary, they are here (this is the defendant from the Reuters story): https://chess24.com/en/read/news/chess24-win-moscow-case-ann... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkTCNuQ2mGfW6-SpHpaze_g (direct link to livestream) If you're looking for live computer engine lines, Steinar Gunderson offers that here, with 38 cores running Stockfish: http://analy…

Also useful, the highlights from the first game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Y_h3eZQ-j0

In the past Daniel King and Christof Sielecki also each did really nice highlight videos, so I'm wondering if this'll discourage them this time.

Re: U.S. judge rejects World Chess bid to block websites from airing moves

#78

Post by conistonwater »

scott00 wrote: post #20

Anybody have a link to the complaint/application for a TRO? A lot of the comments here are talking about copyright law, but most protection or attempted protection of data is done with licensing agreements. I would guess FIDE could require the people viewing in person and on the FIDE website to agree to not disseminate accounts of the game as a condition of being allowed to watch. I'd be interested to learn if FIDE h…

> on the FIDE website to agree to not disseminate accounts of the game as a condition of being allowed to watch.

This is kinda off-topic here, but this might even be technically a violation of the CFAA! Orin Kerr from Volokh Conspiracy has written about it many times, but it's not a serious possibility I guess.

Re: U.S. judge rejects World Chess bid to block websites from airing moves

#79

Post by bo1024 »

DrScump wrote: post #40

In broadcast and print media, there are "facts" which are routinely embargoed (they cannot be released before a certain date/time). Financial results from publicly-traded companies are similarly embargoed, even though they be simple facts. Why can't this mechanism be employed as a condition of being permitted to attend the event?

I think it's just because the event itself is being broadcast on some television or streaming channel.

So you can't legally prevent someone from watching the official stream, then making a broadcast where they discuss facts that are relayed on that stream.

Re: U.S. judge rejects World Chess bid to block websites from airing moves

#80

Post by bo1024 »

scott00 wrote: post #20

Anybody have a link to the complaint/application for a TRO? A lot of the comments here are talking about copyright law, but most protection or attempted protection of data is done with licensing agreements. I would guess FIDE could require the people viewing in person and on the FIDE website to agree to not disseminate accounts of the game as a condition of being allowed to watch. I'd be interested to learn if FIDE h…

But FIDE is also broadcasting live, so even if they did try such a scheme, chess24 could just watch the livestream, get the moves, and make their own broadcast where they tell everyone else the moves.
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