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The Real Lesson in Grubhub CEO Telling Trump Supporters to Resign

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Re: The Real Lesson in Grubhub CEO Telling Trump Supporters to Resign

#51

Post by ant6n »

Latty wrote: post #46
ant6n wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the face of it this is of course reasonable, the problem is the context. You're basically asking people that have been oppressed and are fighting for their rights (often resulting in more vicious oppression), to now come and cuddle what they perceive as their current and former oppressors. Another issue is that the many white males who perceive themselves as under attack respond to it by engaging in even more vici…

"Come and cuddle" isn't really the same thing as not firing someone. I agree with your second point - but I don't see how that's solved by firing them - again, it's just going to reinforce the idea that "white men are under attack!". I get what you are saying, but it turns out almost half of the voting population agrees with his ideas, so the fight isn't over. I, too, thought we were past this point, but clearly we a…

> "Come and cuddle" isn't really the same thing as not firing someone.

True, but it's not like he was gonna fire Trump voters just for being Trump voters. So not firing them is not enough. They also want to get listened to, and they want the feminists and the "SJW"s to accept that they are oppressed now as well. Which will simply never happen.

Re: The Real Lesson in Grubhub CEO Telling Trump Supporters to Resign

#52

Post by internaut »

jameshart wrote: post #17
perseusprime11 wrote: post #6

"If you do not agree with this statement then please reply to this email with your resignation because you have no place here" This is elitist and exactly why we are here today. The country right now needs all of us to be at our best and show inclusiveness.

The statement which he was asking people to agree with being: "to anyone on our team that is scared or feels personally exposed, I and everyone else here at Grubhub will fight for your dignity and your right to make a better life for yourself and your family here in the United States" That seems pretty inclusive to me. I have no idea in what way it is 'elitist'.

> will work to shield our community from this movement as best as I can.

This is the statement that upon rereading his email, troubles me the most.

The rest of it with the Principal of Charity could be taken more favourably.

In the context he can only mean shielding 'his community' from Trump supporters. What other 'movement' could he be talking about?

So it follows that his community does not contain Trump supporters. That's the presumption.

I started to defend him in an earlier thread, but now I wished I had not after I parsed that line properly.

I'm ashamed to see a fellow Irishman being so blockheaded.

Re: The Real Lesson in Grubhub CEO Telling Trump Supporters to Resign

#53

Post by ntdb »

mistermann wrote: post #44
ntdb wrote: post #16

What Matt Maloney (Grubhub CEO) said was: "I want to affirm to anyone on our team that is scared or feels personally exposed, that I and everyone else here at Grubhub will fight for your dignity and your right to make a better life for yourself and your family here in the United States. If you do not agree with this statement then please reply to this email with your resignation because you have no place here." That'…

Respectfully, I think you are being intellectually dishonest: "Full Email Text: SUBJECT: So... that happened... what's next? I'm still trying to reconcile my own worldview with the overwhelming message that was delivered last night. Clearly there are a lot of people angry and scared as the antithesis of every modern presidential candidate won and will be our next president. While demeaning, insulting and ridiculing m…

My intention was to succinctly address the post, not to cherry pick. I do not disagree with anything in Matt's email but I do see opportunities for his intention to be misinterpreted. I agree that he could have been more careful.

Frankly, statements like "anyone with common sense who is paying attention knows exactly what this means" are intellectually lazy. Please explain "exactly what this means" because I do not see it.

Re: The Real Lesson in Grubhub CEO Telling Trump Supporters to Resign

#54

Post by geofft »

Latty wrote: post #39
geofft wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People have a right to their own politics without it affecting their career. Do they? Why? What if your politics is supporting the KKK? This isn't a hyperbolic example: when I was very young, my state almost elected a former KKK grand wizard to the governorship. Are people that the KKK wants to get rid of supposed to be supportive of the careers of KKK members? The only way I can see this working is if we treat "po…

Sure, but what is the limit? To a lot of people, abortion is directly equivalent to murder. Should it be expected that they say "If you are pro-choice, hand in your resignation?". I don't have a good answer, but just supporting a candidate seems like it should not be enough. The email, in my eyes, was threatening to someone who had voted for Trump, regardless of the policies they support him on. That feels wrong to m…

FWIW, you bring up a good point about abortion. I'm thinking about whether my position is consistent with my belief that you shouldn't lose your job over your position on abortion.

Two partial thoughts that I'd welcome criticism on:

1. Indiana's Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which Pence signed and championed, gives a loud "yes" to your question. I do worry about the fact that when the left says "Racism is so wrong that it puts you beyond the bounds of civilized society," the association of the left with liberalism and permissiveness means that there's a hesitancy to follow through with that claim, whereas the right has no hesitancy in following through with the claim "Gay marriage is so wrong that it puts you beyond the bounds of civilized society." In aggregate, the left's moral voice is quieter and muddier.

2. There's a well-documented phenomenon where anti-abortion people think of themselves as exceptions, get an abortion, and continue to be anti-abortion. I don't understand it, but it separates getting an abortion from supporting abortion rights. I strongly believe that getting an abortion should not cause you to lose your job. I don't think I believe as strongly that about being vocally pro-choice. I think Matt Maloney was clear enough that this is about a particular belief, not about how you voted.

Re: The Real Lesson in Grubhub CEO Telling Trump Supporters to Resign

#55

Post by tzs »

kawera wrote: post #50
tzs wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe it's worth offending on average half of your customers I doubt that it is anywhere near half. GrubHub and similar services are mostly in cities. Clinton tended to do better than Trump in cities. Even in states like Texas and Florida, the major cities mostly went heavily Clinton. In Texas, the counties that Dallas, Houston, Austin, and San Antonio went Democrat by 27%, 13%, 39%, and 13% margins, respectively.…

And let's no forget that she got only half the votes because of massive voting suppression rights perpetrated by states in the last few years.

Question for those down voting him. Are you down voting because you don't think voting suppression was been going on for the last few years, or because you don't think it made a difference in this election and so it is not relevant to this thread?

Re: The Real Lesson in Grubhub CEO Telling Trump Supporters to Resign

#56

Post by Latty »

boona wrote: post #49
Latty wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's elitism, it's people simply living in a different world. If you have been left-leaning, you have been living in a world where Trump's policies are scary, racist stuff that belongs way in the past. If you have been right-leaning, you have been living in a world where white people have been under attack for the last x years, and Trump is offering respite. The left just didn't realise the extent of pe…

> The left just didn't realise the extent of people that believed that lie. Believing what lie?

That the rights of minorities come at the cost of the white male.

Re: The Real Lesson in Grubhub CEO Telling Trump Supporters to Resign

#57

Post by Latty »

ant6n wrote: post #51
Latty wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Come and cuddle" isn't really the same thing as not firing someone. I agree with your second point - but I don't see how that's solved by firing them - again, it's just going to reinforce the idea that "white men are under attack!". I get what you are saying, but it turns out almost half of the voting population agrees with his ideas, so the fight isn't over. I, too, thought we were past this point, but clearly we a…

> "Come and cuddle" isn't really the same thing as not firing someone. True, but it's not like he was gonna fire Trump voters just for being Trump voters. So not firing them is not enough. They also want to get listened to, and they want the feminists and the "SJW"s to accept that they are oppressed now as well. Which will simply never happen.

Well, I don't believe that was his intent, but someone who voted for Trump reading that email, who believes that white men are being persecuted, probably does. Leaving them scared, and entrenching them. It's a huge mistake to phrase it so carelessly as to allow that interpretation.

Re: The Real Lesson in Grubhub CEO Telling Trump Supporters to Resign

#58

Post by [deleted] »

ant6n wrote: post #51
Latty wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Come and cuddle" isn't really the same thing as not firing someone. I agree with your second point - but I don't see how that's solved by firing them - again, it's just going to reinforce the idea that "white men are under attack!". I get what you are saying, but it turns out almost half of the voting population agrees with his ideas, so the fight isn't over. I, too, thought we were past this point, but clearly we a…

> "Come and cuddle" isn't really the same thing as not firing someone. True, but it's not like he was gonna fire Trump voters just for being Trump voters. So not firing them is not enough. They also want to get listened to, and they want the feminists and the "SJW"s to accept that they are oppressed now as well. Which will simply never happen.

[deleted]

Re: The Real Lesson in Grubhub CEO Telling Trump Supporters to Resign

#59

Post by Latty »

kawera wrote: post #50
tzs wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe it's worth offending on average half of your customers I doubt that it is anywhere near half. GrubHub and similar services are mostly in cities. Clinton tended to do better than Trump in cities. Even in states like Texas and Florida, the major cities mostly went heavily Clinton. In Texas, the counties that Dallas, Houston, Austin, and San Antonio went Democrat by 27%, 13%, 39%, and 13% margins, respectively.…

And let's no forget that she got only half the votes because of massive voting suppression rights perpetrated by states in the last few years.

That is definitely a huge issue. More proof that FPTP and the Electoral College are fundamentally broken and not really democracy.

Re: The Real Lesson in Grubhub CEO Telling Trump Supporters to Resign

#60

Post by Latty »

geofft wrote: post #54
Latty wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but what is the limit? To a lot of people, abortion is directly equivalent to murder. Should it be expected that they say "If you are pro-choice, hand in your resignation?". I don't have a good answer, but just supporting a candidate seems like it should not be enough. The email, in my eyes, was threatening to someone who had voted for Trump, regardless of the policies they support him on. That feels wrong to m…

FWIW, you bring up a good point about abortion. I'm thinking about whether my position is consistent with my belief that you shouldn't lose your job over your position on abortion. Two partial thoughts that I'd welcome criticism on: 1. Indiana's Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which Pence signed and championed, gives a loud "yes" to your question. I do worry about the fact that when the left says "Racism is so wro…

It's definitely not an easy thing. Freedom of speech doesn't mean a freedom from consequence.

Your two points, the first seems like a fair comparison to me. There is a line in most people's minds between policy they disagree with and things that are morally wrong. Those lines are not in the same places, so it is hard to say what is 'reasonable' to stand up for in such a way.

As to your second point, I think it's a little dangerous to suggest that allowing the act is primary to allowing the speech. The latter may be necessary to ensuring the former - if you can't make a living while being pro-choice, a chilling effect will be applied, and the law eventually changed. In general, if your view is kept to yourself at work, doesn't affect your work, and you don't act on it or encourage people to, it's probably best to protect expressing it.

For me here, it comes down to what is effective. My understanding of the mindset of Trump voters is that they are scared, they have been sold this lie that rights for others come at their expense. Firing Trump supporters isn't going to change that.

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