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The Facebook bubble just popped

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Re: The Facebook bubble just popped

#211

We're all definitely in an echo chamber. Hacker News is an echo chamber. So is Reddit, FB, Twitter, etc. This is what happens when, as an industry, we move towards "personalization". All of our "personalized" feeds allow businesses to increase their ad revenue, but it siphons us away from the rest of the world. 30 years ago, we were beholden to the large media outlets, which is also bad, but I believe we've overcorre…

Yup. But at a more core level, the real problem is that what we want to know isn't what we should know. The two ideally would be equivalent. The solution for this problem is personal wisdom, and hopefully the shock that people are feeling regarding this election's results will produce a bit of wisdom for us all. :)

Re: The Facebook bubble just popped

#212
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue is more with the false equivalency presented by some journalists. A college degree or lack there of, does not automatically denote greater or lesser intelligence.

I don't have a college degree, so I agree. But I have enough knowledge of history to know that giving power to a loud, xenophobic demagogue is worse than giving it to a career politician who's trying to preserve the status quo. And journalists are concerned to see how many people don't.

The problem with this is it's begging the question: it postulates that the status quo she would preserve is at least bearable for everyone. For a lot of people in the US that is simply not the case. Trump actually broke an American political taboo and correctly and vocally identified one factor that is causing these people's miseries: neoliberal globalisation. This is the key factor in his success, he made an issue of a thing that must not be questioned if the ruling class is to peacefully remain ruling (this, not his bigotry and whatnot, is the reason he was so unanimously opposed by the elite — where are all these people when minorities are being literally killed and savagely harassed by the state right now?). Democrats arrogantly refused to acknowledge this problem, and even made sure it was swept under the rug (the case with Sanders). The people recognized this, and now you have the result. Those who accepted that voting is the way to change things and who were persuaded that a third party vote was a waste (both points a cornerstone of mainstream American political ideology) had no other choice but to vote for Trump. The more realistic ones (in my opinion) simply refused to take part in the charade and didn't vote at all thereby refusing to give the corrupt system legitimacy. That Trump has the wrong answers to correct problems is somewhat beside the point when he's the only one left to even acknowledge the problems if you a) have the problem, b) believe one should vote, and c) vote for one of the two major tickets.

For a lot of innocent people outside the US, ironically for a lot of Muslims, HRC's status quo was literally lethal. As someone outside the US, who finds Trump's views unacceptable, and is in Europe, and in no direct danger of US induced violence, I can tell you this: he was not the candidate who enjoyed practically unanimous support of the US industry of death (the so called defense industry), and the whole state military and political neocon apparatus, all the while announcing to try real hard to get in an open confrontation with the other nuclear superpower. In that regard, I am somewhat relieved, and despite what the media might be telling you, a lot of other people are.

Re: The Facebook bubble just popped

#213
post #206
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I have access to my bookmarks later today, I have no problem providing countless prominent individuals in the "SJW Sphere" to prove my point that they use it positively and someone less engaged could easily see it as a positive term. >I have been reading up on politics or engaged in political discussion online for maybe ~4 hours daily for the past two years. The exact opposite of not being politically engaged an…

> The exact opposite of not being politically engaged and having the few times you've seen the term be in a positive usage... Not sure what you're trying to say here. I honestly don't care that much about any of this. I know that there are people like you who hate "SJWs", but really what a weird thing to get riled up over. My political engagement has been entirely contrary to the war-profiteering, plundering, pro-cor…

>Not sure what you're trying to say here.

My apologies. People who are not politically active (eg: casual Facebook browsers) will never, ever come across the term "SJW". They may have seen it a few times. If they're college-aged maybe they have a friend in college who describes themselves as a "SJW" in a positive light. 1-2 interactions with SJW's using "SJW" as a positive term is enough for them to see the term in a positive/neutral way, as opposed to the way heavy internet users who scour Twitter for hours a day and are active in the #Gamergate hashtag will see the term "SJW".

If you browse Github, HackerNews, /r/TumblrInAction, or Twitter frequently then your chances of running into the term "SJW" increases as does your chances of seeing it used in mostly a negative way.

To then assume that everyone "knows" the term is a negative one when it's sphere of influence is a few small niches of the internet is being dishonest. Especially when that person denies said accusation.

>My political engagement has been entirely contrary to the war-profiteering, plundering, pro-corporate elites that run the world, but by all means you keep going after those evil college kids and feminists!

Why not both? Dangerous elites are only as dangerous as the public allows them to be. How many singular elites can kill thousands or millions of people without people to do the killing for them?

History has a historically thin line between "these people are bad" and "these people are bad and we should round them up and kill them". When people actively use the rhetoric of the latter, I listen and grow concerned...

Re: The Facebook bubble just popped

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there was fraud. We know better than most how easily a box can get pwned when the attacker has unsupervised physical access for a few minutes, and the manufacturer gives short shrift to security and practices security through obscurity--such as by keeping the source tightly closed. The question is whether Trump supporters were better at cheating than Clinton supporters, or better at covering their tracks. E…

"no actual, living person could" It doesn't have to be one person. It could be multiple teams of people. They don't have to intervene all over the country, either. They could make a huge difference by affecting a relatively small number of votes in a handful of battleground states where the race is very close. In the case of Bush v Gore, it would have been sufficient to make a difference in only one state.

Tyler Durden had multiple Fight Clubs, all of whom were completely loyal, anonymous, and committed to operational security. That's why I said he'd be the only one able to do it.

For real people, the more people you add for operations, the more you have to add for security and cleanup. Beyond a certain point, you just can't keep everybody quiet without extreme measures, which are themselves likely to be noticed.

Secret conspiracies have to be small, otherwise someone eventually gets disgruntled or has an attack of conscience and spills the beans.

Even large, public conspiracies, like the classified documents protection system, eventually develop leaks, and it is already really expensive to operate before accounting for cleanup up after spies or whistleblowers.

So if we ever reach the point where five people or less could remotely rig the vote for every county in Florida, I have to not only assume that it is being done every election, but also that multiple groups may be stepping on each other's toes while doing it. Previously, the traditional ways of rigging the vote are right out in the open. You get people likely to vote against you stricken from the voter register. You enter fake ballots in the name of someone not likely to vote, such as the recently deceased. You sabotage polling places in urban areas such that voter throughput is reduced, and lines grow around the block. You get local cops out on the streets, giving out traffic citations to selected people that may be on their way to vote. I have even seen sudden construction activity on election day obstructing the sole entrance to a polling place.

Those are nasty, but at least people can seek redress for the misbehavior that they can see.

Re: The Facebook bubble just popped

#215
post #213
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The exact opposite of not being politically engaged and having the few times you've seen the term be in a positive usage... Not sure what you're trying to say here. I honestly don't care that much about any of this. I know that there are people like you who hate "SJWs", but really what a weird thing to get riled up over. My political engagement has been entirely contrary to the war-profiteering, plundering, pro-cor…

>Not sure what you're trying to say here. My apologies. People who are not politically active (eg: casual Facebook browsers) will never, ever come across the term "SJW". They may have seen it a few times. If they're college-aged maybe they have a friend in college who describes themselves as a "SJW" in a positive light. 1-2 interactions with SJW's using "SJW" as a positive term is enough for them to see the term in a…

To then assume that everyone "knows" the term is a negative one when it's sphere of influence is a few small niches of the internet is being dishonest.

Which is what makes it a dog whistle:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics

Dog-whistle politics is political messaging employing coded language that appears to mean one thing to the general population but has an additional, different or more specific resonance for a targeted subgroup.

I have very little faith that sickbeard didn't know full well that he was employing a dog whistle when he dropped "SJW" into the thread.

Re: The Facebook bubble just popped

#216
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Not sure what you're trying to say here. My apologies. People who are not politically active (eg: casual Facebook browsers) will never, ever come across the term "SJW". They may have seen it a few times. If they're college-aged maybe they have a friend in college who describes themselves as a "SJW" in a positive light. 1-2 interactions with SJW's using "SJW" as a positive term is enough for them to see the term in a…

To then assume that everyone "knows" the term is a negative one when it's sphere of influence is a few small niches of the internet is being dishonest. Which is what makes it a dog whistle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics Dog-whistle politics is political messaging employing coded language that appears to mean one thing to the general population but has an additional, different or more specific res…

All right, here we go. Each reference is to an individual in case they have multiples.

[0] Bio. https://twitter.com/plankysmith

[1] https://twitter.com/crazypastor/status/778740809013137408 , https://twitter.com/crazypastor/status/654843889468231680

[2] https://twitter.com/mholzschlag/status/776017986209492992

[3] #ProudSJW (SJW is not an insult) https://twitter.com/SofaMan/status/791580903021563904 , https://twitter.com/L0uisCouture/status/735112931306803200 , https://twitter.com/aisling206/status/793116826637111302 , https://twitter.com/Meghatron5/status/759093344865808385 , https://twitter.com/_chrishaynes/status/736370080875843585 , https://twitter.com/PeachyKeenGreat/status/62350084749057638... , https://twitter.com/elizabethveldon/status/53071411106861875...

The tag didn't really catch on, so let's get off Twitter.

[4] http://thegeekiary.com/im-proud-to-be-a-social-justice-warri...

[5] Let's check the SJW-wiki: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Social_justice_warrior

>The reclamation of the term has spread to people who have never had it used upon them, and as a result, it is seen by many social justice advocates as a legitimate and accepted label for people who promote social justice. This has, in many circles (for example, Tumblr), heavily mitigated its pejoration, and consequently, heavily increased its positive usage by SJWs themselves

Okay, actually this is boring. You don't care and have already convinced yourself - abandoning the principle of charity. So we'll leave it at this I guess.

Re: The Facebook bubble just popped

#217
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really a new idea. This effect is called preference falsification: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preference_falsification For those who don't want to follow the link: "individuals convey preferences that differ from what they genuinely want"

No, the idea of being persecuted for what you believe and then in turn, lying in public about it is not a new idea. It doesn't need a Wikipedia article nor a term for it. It has been around since the beginning of time. What is new is that this sort of environment is taking hold in the US, which is unfortunate. And this forum is as guilty as any other. People lambasted Peter Thiel for speaking his mind and voting his…

No, the idea of being persecuted for what you believe and then in turn, lying in public about it is not a new idea.

However, formalizing the concept this way allowed the further step of the preference cascade, and that, while also not exactly new in practice, was a more enlightening concept.

Re: The Facebook bubble just popped

#218

The biggest problem with our country isn't the people who voted for Trump, it's the people who are surprised that he won. For what it's worth, here is an email conversation about this that I submitted to HN before the election: https://www.fwdeveryone.com/t/e1rtmBSJR16mkcCRlqmWwQ/lifehac...

If you were cynical, you would have predicted that the United States, a country full of racists and bigots, would never elect a black man for President. But they did: twice. There were good reasons to predict that George W Bush, an embarrassing, arrogant, stupid buffoon who got the country in to two disastrous wars and failed to prevent 9/11, who had massive protests against him from all over the country would not ge…

Many were surprised when an actor, Ronald Reagan, was elected as President. Another actor was elected Governor of California, and arguably may have become President had he been born in the US.

Urrrmm, did you know that Reagan was the Governor of California for 2 terms, from 1967 to 1974?

Re: The Facebook bubble just popped

#219
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To then assume that everyone "knows" the term is a negative one when it's sphere of influence is a few small niches of the internet is being dishonest. Which is what makes it a dog whistle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics Dog-whistle politics is political messaging employing coded language that appears to mean one thing to the general population but has an additional, different or more specific res…

All right, here we go. Each reference is to an individual in case they have multiples. [0] Bio. https://twitter.com/plankysmith [1] https://twitter.com/crazypastor/status/778740809013137408 , https://twitter.com/crazypastor/status/654843889468231680 [2] https://twitter.com/mholzschlag/status/776017986209492992 [3] #ProudSJW (SJW is not an insult) https://twitter.com/SofaMan/status/791580903021563904 , https://twitter…

Riiiight. So because the n-word and the f-word have been reclaimed by their communities, I shouldn't assume that folks not in those communities aren't still using the term in a derogatory fashion?

Please.

Go back and read the original post. SJW was not being used with a positive connotation in context, and to suggest otherwise is just being willfully stubborn simply to make a point.

Re: The Facebook bubble just popped

#220
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you see a political post do you tend to interact with it? Do you interact more with personal uplifting stories? Your feed tends to contain the sort of things you interact with to the exclusion of the sort of things you don't. You are probably in a Facebook bubble without even realising it...

No. I dont do anything on facebook at all, i just happen to scroll through my feed every other week when i just went online to contact one of the few people that i cant reach otherwise. I really see where you are going, and i see that we all are in our personal Facebook bubble. But my point stands that Facebook simply does not have the same relevance at here that it seems to have in the U.S. People here read news, ma…

I dont do anything on facebook at all, i just happen to scroll through my feed every other week when i just went online to contact one of the few people that i cant reach otherwise.

Well there you go again: at last count 1.26 billion people check Facebook daily, and they're not all American. The figures in German speaking countries are huge too, your personal usage is simply not very representative of most people's.

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