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Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#111

Post by jwdunne »

77pt77 wrote: post #90
jwdunne wrote: post #82

I was in cubs, I was bullied out of it. Any social club can go both ways.

Maybe bullying someone provides a "mental health boost". I'm being a bit facetious but there seems to be at least a correlation. Bullies live happier lives.

Thinking about it I'm not sure they all do. If that sort of behaviour is validated enough and they come out of school with next to nothing, which is the case for many bullies in the UK, they will definitely get a sharp shock when they step into the real world.

On the other hand, some go on to head large companies and make billions where their behaviour is idolised as the way to get great things done.

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#112

Post by timthorn »

Angostura wrote: post #104
gonzo wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former SM, the goals (Aims) of Scouting do not include getting young men to the rank of Eagle. The aims of Scouting are: Character development Citizenship training Physical fitness The methods used to achieve these aims: http://www.nesa.org/methods.html Learning to live with others is one of the things achieved via the patrol method. This tends to develop citizenship.

Bear in mind that this was a study of those participating in U.K. Scouting which is different in many respects to the American organisation

And UK Scouting was very different 40 years ago to how it is today - relevant as this study looks at outcomes for those born in 1958

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#113

Post by timthorn »

totally wrote: post #62
redcalx wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a selection bias issue here. E.g. if there were some underling genetic disorder that causes anxiety, then that person is less likely to join a group.

Yep, the bias is that all of the scouts came from households that decided to enroll their kid/s in the scouts. This is not a joke, and there is a difference in value systems and other factors that cut across cliché dimensions like socio-economic status.

The study lead was interviewed on R4 this morning, and asserted they they'd controlled for this.

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#114

Post by lfowles »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #38
parennoob wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is almost certainly the case. Being a scout/guide strongly correlates with parental income in the US at least – I don't know how it is in the UK. But if that is true, the headline might as well be "Being rich provides a mental health boost for life".

My scouts (was Scoutmaster for 20 years) definitely did not fit the 'rich kid' profile. Farm kids, rural community, parents working 2 jobs or driving a truck. We went to mountains, deserts, rivers and lakes. We swam in a lake on an island in a lake. We canoed, hiked, camped, cooked, woodworked, laughed and ran. Our Troop tried to keep event costs down to around $15, so everybody could participate. Succeeded for the m…

Interesting that you mention rural community, my impression (I was in 4-H) was that rural kids tended towards 4-H and city kids tended towards Scouts.

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#115

Post by JoeAltmaier »

lfowles wrote: post #114
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My scouts (was Scoutmaster for 20 years) definitely did not fit the 'rich kid' profile. Farm kids, rural community, parents working 2 jobs or driving a truck. We went to mountains, deserts, rivers and lakes. We swam in a lake on an island in a lake. We canoed, hiked, camped, cooked, woodworked, laughed and ran. Our Troop tried to keep event costs down to around $15, so everybody could participate. Succeeded for the m…

Interesting that you mention rural community, my impression (I was in 4-H) was that rural kids tended towards 4-H and city kids tended towards Scouts.

Many did both. One poor mom with 5 hyperactive sons had them in everything, out of desperation. One 4H fair they submit 50 projects as a family.

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#116

Post by mrexroad »

Spearchucker wrote: post #5

I was a boy scout in the late '70s and early '80s. Loved it, and although I was too young to care at the time, my son will probably not join because religion. Yes, they have a "non-religious promise" now, but you're still subjected to it. I don't care for it, and my son will (like I did) get to choose for himself but (unlike me) without being forcibly subjected to the propaganda. All that said, scouting has changed s…

> "still subjected to it"

I'm a den leader for cub scouts in the US. In our pack, we leave the directly-religious requirements up to the family to accomplish in whatever way they see fit (i'm fine if that includes doing nothing). Beyond that, any other would-be religious aspects are really just "be a good human" without any specific references.

At least 1/3 of my oldest son's den is not Christian.

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#117

Post by cmrdporcupine »

redcalx wrote: post #45
jjp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More details on the study from NewScientist [1] They analysed data from a long-running study of almost 10,000 people across the UK who were born in November 1958. They found that 28 per cent of the study’s participants had been involved in the Scouts or Guides, and that these were 15 per cent less likely to suffer from anxiety or mood disorders at the age of 50 than their peers who didn’t join. Scouts or Guides were…

There is a selection bias issue here. E.g. if there were some underling genetic disorder that causes anxiety, then that person is less likely to join a group.

Absolutely a huge selection bias.

My daughter did Sparks & Brownies and it ended up being a big clique of kids who all went to the same church & school and in the end she (a hyper sensitive, artistic, intellectual type child and a more solitary, introverted type) hated it and asked to quit it.

I went through the same thing with Scouts when I was a boy.

The kids that remain after the first couple years of cute crafts and silly games are the kids who like following along with group activities, like doing group organization stuff, and deal well with social groups and (often) cliques.

Basically like sports, like a lot of elementary-level school (and a lot of other things in our society) -- the "odd" kids are selected against.

So no surprise there's "good mental health" for people who are good at conforming to the norm. Because that's literally the definition of "good mental health" encoded in the DSM. A disorder there is a deviation from the norm.

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#118

Post by ryandrake »

All I remember from Scouts (USA, 1980s) was continuous fund raising. It was all about learning how to sell candy bars and T-shirts every month. I don't recall ever going on any actual outings in the woods or learning how to tie knots--there was never time amid the constant fund raising.

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#119

Post by secfirstmd »

chiph wrote: post #109
toomanybeersies wrote: post #4

I was in scouts and cadets here in New Zealand when I was a teenager and continue to spend a fair amount of time in the outdoors (I also did Outward Bound when I was 16), and I can definitely relate to the researcher's findings. When you're 2 days walk from civilisation, it's pissing down with rain, and you're cold, wet, hungry, and tired, you get a different perspective on life and the "soft" challenges that you fac…

> I've never served in the military, but from the people I know that have, they pretty much learn to take the same attitude. The phrase used in the US military for this is "Embrace the suck". Which means "The situation is bad, but deal with it."

In Ireland we mostly called it "Improvise, adapt, overcome."

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#120

Post by stvswn »

chiph wrote: post #109
toomanybeersies wrote: post #4

I was in scouts and cadets here in New Zealand when I was a teenager and continue to spend a fair amount of time in the outdoors (I also did Outward Bound when I was 16), and I can definitely relate to the researcher's findings. When you're 2 days walk from civilisation, it's pissing down with rain, and you're cold, wet, hungry, and tired, you get a different perspective on life and the "soft" challenges that you fac…

> I've never served in the military, but from the people I know that have, they pretty much learn to take the same attitude. The phrase used in the US military for this is "Embrace the suck". Which means "The situation is bad, but deal with it."

As an Eagle Scout and former Army officer, one of my enduring life lessons has been "false motivation is better than no motivation."

When you're cold, wet, and tired it helps to pretend you love it. It's infectious, too.

It is actually a good feeling when you realize you're not as fragile as you thought you were. "I would have thought that I'd be miserable in this situation, but I'm actually OK" is a good thought to have.

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