Donald Trump Is Elected President • Hacker News Board

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#771

Post by ansible » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 7:43 PM UTC

threatofrain wrote: post #378

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

I think the only decent destiny left for the unskilled undemanded worker is one of welfare, but those same voters have vicious attitudes about welfare and those on welfare. It's not reasonable to retrain this coincidental generation of unskilled undemanded workers, especially not when our nation still has a bad education resource problem. Pedagogical expenditure should go to those who are most likely to experience th…

There is plenty of demand for unskilled labor in the USA, just look at the farm industry (especially fruits and vegetables) or in other areas (landscaping). Most USA citizens, however, aren't keen on working long hours, in back-breaking conditions, for low pay. And so the migrants come to fill those roles.

If we had better pay and working conditions for those industries, more citizens would take those jobs, and there'd be less for illegal immigrants.

But there was such a stink about raising the minimum wage... I don't think that's going to happen any time soon. No one cares about the farm workers it seems.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#772

Post by devopsproject » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 7:43 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #374

DavajDavaj wrote: post #95

I think the election of Trump is also a backslash against the PC, SJW, safe-space, trigger-warning, micro aggression tendencies that have been spreading in the U.S. for the last couple of years. This has become too much and millions of Americans are fed up with it, they have now spoken out.

Which is ironic since Trump's supporters are the most PC, safe-space, triggered people I've seen. Clinton called some of them "deplorables" and there was such hue and cry. Point out that it's racist to criticize a judge based on his ancestry, or to propose banning immigrants based on their religion, and they got so tremendously offended.

They were mad because she attacked US citizens

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#773

Post by lerpa » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 7:43 PM UTC

micaksica wrote: post #246

stefs wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

reddit user TPKM's comment on the sanders-would-have-won-thread: "Support for Trump, much like Brexit, was based upon an extremely widespread feeling that average people are not getting their fair share of the benefits of globalisation. This is neither a specifically Democrat or Republican problem, and people have been saying it one way or another for years. It was also the foundation of Sanders' campaign. The differ…

> curbing immigration is an actual solution to the problem. Curbing immigration won't be a solution to the problem; it's just a highly visible one. Each immigrant that is looking for a job in the US is taking one away from the supply for an American. That is how the Trumpistas see things. Economically, sure, that's true. The immigrants take jobs from the labor supply. What people don't see is that aside from ones on…

When people are looking for jobs is great, America was founded upon immigrants looking for good working conditions. Some people will end up unemployed because they aren't able to adapt, yep, but that in the end makes production cheaper and more competitive.

The problem happens when government burdens a group of people with taxes and makes their livelihood more expensive, and becomes the cause of such inability to compete in the market. Limiting immigration is the dumb man's solution to that problem, the real solution would be a yuge cutting of expenses in order to reduce tax burden, and consequently the size of government.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#774

Post by grzm » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 7:44 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #578

daodedickinson wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>turnout "Obama got 65.9m votes in '12, Romney 60.9m. Clinton has 59.3m, Trump 59.1m. R vote didn't go up; Dem vote went down. 6.6m missing votes." https://twitter.com/MaxBoot/status/796378238306160641

I sat out as a Sanders supporter. I am sure I am not alone. EDIT: 1. I viewed Sanders support of Clinton as forced/coerced, as in "We let you compete in the Democratic primary, now you owe us". EDIT 2: By agreeing to support Clinton, she adopted some of his left leaning policies (in show only though, such as not supporting fracking or the TPP). 2. Of course I voted down ballot. EDIT 3: Getting really tired of these H…

After Hillary became the Democratic candidate, what was Sander's incentive for doing endorsing and continuing to support Hillary? What leverage would force/coerce him? He had at least two other options: remain silent, or endorse Trump.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#775

Post by mythrwy » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 7:44 PM UTC

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

For the immediate, I think Trump addressed this in his victory speech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL_wh-d1pP4&feature=youtu.be

Rebuilding infrastructure. Construction (and associated services) jobs.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#776

Post by wtbob » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 7:46 PM UTC

akiselev wrote: post #395

My entire family feels a terrible sadness today. We immigrated here to the United States from Russia almost 20 years ago (to the day) and after all the immigration bullshit we were finally eligible for citizenship this year. My dad took his oath and got his US passport literally weeks before the election and this is what he gets for his first vote: a divisive demagogue beat a corrupt career politician. There are no w…

Destroying the Electoral College would be one more step in destroying the federal nature of the Unites States. Perhaps you think that's a good thing, but I think it's a terrible idea: I think that we should be more, not less, federal. What works for the people of Massachusetts is not what works for the people of California, or the people of Wyoming.

I'd like to see state legislatures selecting electors again.

Also, the Constitution states, 'No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.' Has Congress consented to this interstate compact?

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#777

Post by mulletbum » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 7:47 PM UTC

rudolf0 wrote: post #751

mitochondrion wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigration isn't a fake issue. Take a walk around Miami or San Diego. Or New York. Or London. Or Paris. Or Malmö. Gay marriage is just the final nail in the coffin of marriage, which was already basically dead. It's a mind-bogglingly stupid hill to die on, but nobody ever accused conservatives of brilliance. Obamacare is a disaster because it enables still more people to suck still more dollars out of the system tha…

>Gay marriage is just the final nail in the coffin of marriage, which was already basically dead. It's a mind-bogglingly stupid hill to die on, but nobody ever accused conservatives of brilliance. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Are you for or against gay marriage?

I think the statement should mean neither. He is saying marriage institution being a government subsidy is absurd and should be shot in the head. No one should "get married" in government standards. We should not assist someone in any way for having a child. We should enforce population control as light handed as possible. Okay that's just how I feel about everything actually, nevermind.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#778

Post by intopieces » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 7:49 PM UTC

phkahler wrote: post #695

jernfrost wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do what the democrats have talked about, which we have successfully done in Nordic countries which is to spend a lot of money on re-educating the workforce and making sure those at the bottom get decent skills. I grew up in a rustbelt like industrial town in Norway. We has shipyards, glass factory, paper mill, textile industry, lock systems etc. Almost all of it got closed down and moved overseas as I grew up…

>> spend a lot of money on re-educating the workforce and making sure those at the bottom get decent skills. It is the height of snobbery to move the lesser skilled jobs out of the country and tell everyone they need to be smarter. There will always be a distribution of skills and it is not for the well educated to say "you just need to be like us". All the US needs to do is stop signing 900 page "free trade" agreeme…

>There will always be a distribution of skills and it is not for the well educated to say "you just need to be like us".

This is akin to saying, "It's not for the doctor to tell you how to live your life." True enough; but you ignore their advice at your own peril.

That an education is a path to economic stability and mobility is not a matter of opinion. To write this off as snobbery is shooting the messenger.

There will always be a distribution of skills. And that distribution of skills required by the market needs to match the education of the populace. "Smart" is a superlative; "educated in a particular field" is merely an attribute.

Manufacturing is not coming back. We need to move on, and soon.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#779

Post by mulletbum » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 7:49 PM UTC

lucasmullens wrote: post #693

nickbauman wrote: post #539

I think we learned that fake news (used to pump up fake issues) is now a legitimate campaign strategy that works even on people who should know better. Trump won on a mountain of fake issues: Immigration: both conservative and liberal economists agree that immigration (illegal or otherwise) does not suppress wages and does not suppress job growth. https://www.cato.org/research/immigration http://business.time.com/201…

"Fake issues" is a weird way to describe issues like universal healthcare and gay marriage that have been debated for decades. Half the country is on the other side of many of these issues, so I wouldn't call them fake.

I think he means, it isn't an issue that they will address. It is a built up for election sake, but will be ignored otherwise.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#780

Post by ryanx435 » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 7:49 PM UTC

pmarreck wrote: post #745

elcct wrote: post #329

I think people are tired of political correctness and left wing (or so called liberals if you will) stealing the fruits of hard work of the people in form of taxes and regulations and pushing "equality" agenda at all cost. People are not equal.

> People are not equal. And yet, the right would have you believe that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge (RIP Asimov). Because you are just an elitist educated librul, and how can you even breathe the thought that you're better than me in any way, shape, or form, especially when it comes to making important decisions that demand critical evaluation of a lot of evidence? I have a family and mouths to feed…

Its ignorant for you to assume that people on the right are ignorant and honestly the attitude of people like you were one of the driving forces of me supporting and voting for trump.

Here I am, working as a software engineer, with a BS in computer science, fluent in multiple languages, able to criticaly evaluate evidence in order to make decisions, and just as educated as you are, and you automatically assume that just because I'm on the right I am ignorant.

Its people like you that have poisoned the well of society.