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Donald Trump Is Elected President

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Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#571

Post by AngrySkillzz »

micaksica wrote: post #186
moultano wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dramatically increase the amount of housing in urban areas so more people can move there and away from the places without any industry left.

This will not help. You are supposing that the people who feel disenfranchised in the Rust Belt want to move to NYC where they can get cheap housing and work in the city. They don't want the China model of having a Foxconn that hires rural workers to work in the big city. What these people want isn't fully rational; it's highly emotional. They want their 1950s-style old way of life back. They want their jobs in their…

Even worse, the only reasons the mid-century was so great in America are 1) we had all the gold (from exporting during WW2), and 2) the productive capacity of most other developed countries was completely destroyed (by WW2). Even if globalization and automation were not issues, there would still be no way of life to go back to.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#572

Post by bobjordan »

greenshackle2 wrote: post #311
gthtjtkt wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> at the expense of talking about why she should be president. Hillary couldn't make that argument because it would've drawn more attention to her most damning flaw: The fact that she's a textbook demagogue who was on the wrong side of every progressive issue until she found it politically expedient to "evolve". That's why so many people were so passionate about Sanders. You could go back to C-SPAN videos from 1992 a…

Having the same opinion for 24 years is not a virtue. In the (probably apocryphal) words of Keynes: > When someone persuades me that I am wrong, I change my mind. What do you do? It's not a sign of vice either; I'm sure he's been believing that the Earth is round for 24+ years, and that's fine. What matters is accuracy, and updating in the face of new evidence, not consistency . Consistency in the face of new evidenc…

Bernie's viewpoints were so far left that he had to hammer on them for 40+ years until the stars aligned and we all began to recognize the pearls of truth they held. Twenty years ago I could not have considered his viewpoint but now with more age and empathy driven into me I can get behind (most of) his viewpoint. Thank God for Bernie and hopefully we can rebirth a new democratic party that can integrate some of his views to help recapture a large part of the 59,000,000 people that felt compelled to vote for Trump.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#573

Post by guhcampos »

Disclaimer: I'm a Brazilian living in Brazil, so merely a watcher in the US Election.

On times like these, I try very hard to be optimistic, and for this specific historical moment I'd say the US is in a better place than Brazil - relatively speaking.

While Brazil has just gone through a major soft-coup, that has the majority of the nation, guided by media attention, agreeing with it.

For the US election, however, there's a bright side: the actual majority of the American people (even if for a thing margin) has voted for Hillary Clinton, or at least voted against Trump.

It really does not matter if you support one or the other, the sad fact is that, once again, the US will have a president who was not chosen by the majority of its people. This has significant social and philosophical implications. Maybe, just maybe, this election will be the one that drives change, encouraging states to change their laws and provide a better representative system.

I'm not saying that direct representation is better - I'm not entitled to say that - but there's a very obvious dissatisfaction among the younger American people, which are now in position, and willing, to demand changes and come up with creative solutions for the representative democracy.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#574

Post by icantdrive55 »

rconti wrote: post #484
zanethomas wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you're incorrect in asserting that the election was about "disenfranchised blue collar workers". My daughter and her husband make about $200k per year and they voted for Trump. She's describes Trumps win as a great big middle finger to career politicians.

There are people who spraypaint unintelligible garbage on highway overpasses and key peoples' cars as a big middle finger to society, too. It's all just trolling. It's not to gain anything. It's to make things worse for everyone else.

His relatives voted? How are they Trolls? It might have to get worse, before it gets better? They apparently voted for Trump because they don't believe in career politicians. They did not just sit, and complain. Sometimes, the biggest complainer in the village brings on change.

(I'm really tired of the word Troll. We need to stop using this Interweb speak. It's just played out. The slightest critism, "She's a Troll!" It's done. Let's put these words away? Let's leave them to the Wayback Machine?)

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#575

Post by api »

blakeyrat wrote: post #294
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

I live in a relatively small suburb of Seattle. I'm a software developer. There are no jobs for me where I live. None. None within 20 miles. The only job for me is in Seattle or Bellevue or Redmond, an hour-long commute. I love where I live, and I don't want to live in Seattle (which I could barely afford anyway-- I like owning a house). I also don't want to exclusively work-from-home and be cut-off socially from my…

Related to the hollowing out of the middle class is the insane super-concentration of opportunity into cities. Even some suburbs around hot cities are now no-go zones.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#576

Post by vkou »

daodedickinson wrote: post #494
huac wrote: post #109

I have a lot of thoughts, but here's one: Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. In general, making the case against someone else rather than the affirmative case for yourself doesn't work. It's reaction versus action. It's undoubtably true now that there was a very real populist anger towards the existing political order, and…

>turnout "Obama got 65.9m votes in '12, Romney 60.9m. Clinton has 59.3m, Trump 59.1m. R vote didn't go up; Dem vote went down. 6.6m missing votes." https://twitter.com/MaxBoot/status/796378238306160641

We don't have final counts yet - these numbers will increase. Voter turnout this election was high.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#577

Post by hyperpape »

laserDinosaur wrote: post #343
blakeyrat wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a relatively small suburb of Seattle. I'm a software developer. There are no jobs for me where I live. None. None within 20 miles. The only job for me is in Seattle or Bellevue or Redmond, an hour-long commute. I love where I live, and I don't want to live in Seattle (which I could barely afford anyway-- I like owning a house). I also don't want to exclusively work-from-home and be cut-off socially from my…

>The only job for me is in Seattle or Bellevue or Redmond, an hour-long commute I don't mean to belittle your situation but..an hour seems like fantastic commuting time. Most people I work with take an hour to an hour and a half to get to work. Up until our office moved there was two guys that had a 2 hour trip into work every day. Most people I know would kill to have an hour commute.

Typical commute times are 30 or less. There are a few areas/jobs where that is not true, and it's a heavy cost for the people there.

I've read the above several places, but anecdotally, I live in Raleigh (technically Garner) commute 25-30 minutes to work, and have one of the longer commutes of people I work with.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#578

Post by toomuchtodo »

daodedickinson wrote: post #494
huac wrote: post #109

I have a lot of thoughts, but here's one: Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. In general, making the case against someone else rather than the affirmative case for yourself doesn't work. It's reaction versus action. It's undoubtably true now that there was a very real populist anger towards the existing political order, and…

>turnout "Obama got 65.9m votes in '12, Romney 60.9m. Clinton has 59.3m, Trump 59.1m. R vote didn't go up; Dem vote went down. 6.6m missing votes." https://twitter.com/MaxBoot/status/796378238306160641

I sat out as a Sanders supporter. I am sure I am not alone.

EDIT:

1. I viewed Sanders support of Clinton as forced/coerced, as in "We let you compete in the Democratic primary, now you owe us". EDIT 2: By agreeing to support Clinton, she adopted some of his left leaning policies (in show only though, such as not supporting fracking or the TPP).

2. Of course I voted down ballot.

EDIT 3: Getting really tired of these HN throttling limits.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#579

Post by eru »

mc32 wrote: post #75
dopamean wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the crux of why Trump's pandering to them was total bullshit. He can't do anything to help them because the jobs that left aren't coming back. In four years they will be in the same position they are now but they wont have a black man or a Democrat to blame for it and so they wont be quite as bitter about it.

I think this is a bit dismissive of the issue --and the thinking that sunk the Hillary's campaign. In terms of trade, the US typically like to pay it forward --it lets trade partners have a slight advantage so long as it sees a net positive (see China) presumably Trump would ask for equal benefits. So rather than asking is this good for the global economy his administration might instead ask, is this good for the US…

> In terms of trade, the US typically like to pay it forward --it lets trade partners have a slight advantage so long as it sees a net positive (see China) presumably Trump would ask for equal benefits.

That's a weird language. It's to the best benefit of the country to just adopt unilateral free trade. No need to bargain.

Of course, politically, that's not feasible.

But there's no `benefit' that comes at a cost to the country when allowing your citizens to freely trade with other countries citizens.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#580

Post by threatofrain »

sabarn01 wrote: post #447
threatofrain wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the only decent destiny left for the unskilled undemanded worker is one of welfare, but those same voters have vicious attitudes about welfare and those on welfare. It's not reasonable to retrain this coincidental generation of unskilled undemanded workers, especially not when our nation still has a bad education resource problem. Pedagogical expenditure should go to those who are most likely to experience th…

The argument could be made to role back the clock make import tariffs very high and limit automation. If I'm unskilled why would I not join a political revolt to limit the effects of my future irrelevance.

If you're an unskilled and undemanded worker, you cannot simply join a political revolt in nation. Every major company in the world is racing for robotic manufacturing and machine learning-applied services and products.

A robotic future is very amenable to elite interests in all corners of the globe.

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