Donald Trump Is Elected President • Hacker News Board

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#651

Post by knz » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 6:33 PM UTC

some-guy wrote: post #547

mikeash wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is ironic since Trump's supporters are the most PC, safe-space, triggered people I've seen. Clinton called some of them "deplorables" and there was such hue and cry. Point out that it's racist to criticize a judge based on his ancestry, or to propose banning immigrants based on their religion, and they got so tremendously offended.

This is spot on. "PC" "safe-space" and "SJW" are simply labels for specific people, but the same tendencies behind them exist everywhere. The same people complaining about PC-culture and SJWs are the same people who are outraged about Colin Kaepernick taking a knee during the national anthem.

And the same people who fear their religious liberty is under attack because gay people can get married or because Starbucks says "happy holidays" on the side of their green cup.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#652

Post by MattyRad » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 6:34 PM UTC

deadringerr wrote: post #453

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #221

My takeaway from this is that our strategy of "shaming" people into voting a certain way doesn't work. Exit polls seem to suggest that plenty of people understated their support for Trump because they were embarrassed to admit they voted for him. But they still did. In effect, you don't stop people from supporting racism, homophobia, or misogyny by calling attention to it. That only makes them support it quietly. You…

I like your points, I do think this is a big piece of the picture. I almost wish the polls let you vote either "for" a candidate or directly "against" a particular candidate - I think we'd see that many of the Trump voters would have preferred to vote "against" Clinton rather than "for" Trump.

Stein suggested an interesting solution to this problem: https://youtu.be/py6sPkiQm8E?t=2m45s. Food for thought.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#653

Post by nerfhammer » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 6:34 PM UTC

curiousgeorgio wrote: post #52

phreack wrote: post #27

As an outsider, it is painfully clear that I should not try to move my business to the US at this point. Europe's looking better than ever now for tech startups.

For what it's worth, Trump's views are likely to be more advantageous for tech startups than Clinton's would have been.

Tech startups are often composed of a majority of people born outside of the United States.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#654

Post by ch4s3 » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 6:34 PM UTC

micaksica wrote: post #246

stefs wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

reddit user TPKM's comment on the sanders-would-have-won-thread: "Support for Trump, much like Brexit, was based upon an extremely widespread feeling that average people are not getting their fair share of the benefits of globalisation. This is neither a specifically Democrat or Republican problem, and people have been saying it one way or another for years. It was also the foundation of Sanders' campaign. The differ…

> curbing immigration is an actual solution to the problem. Curbing immigration won't be a solution to the problem; it's just a highly visible one. Each immigrant that is looking for a job in the US is taking one away from the supply for an American. That is how the Trumpistas see things. Economically, sure, that's true. The immigrants take jobs from the labor supply. What people don't see is that aside from ones on…

>The immigrants take jobs from the labor supply

I think you mean they fill labor demand or that they diminish the supply of jobs by providing labor. This however incorrectly assumes that the demand for labor is fixed. That demand is affected by supply + cost of labor and demand for goods and services. Immigrants consumer goods and pay of services so more immigrants means more aggregate consumer demand, which leads to higher demand for labor. In the end immigrants result in a net labor demand increase due to consumption. Immigrants no matter how frugal still get haircuts, buy groceries, see doctors, pay for tax help, call plumbers, by pants, go to bars, buy used cars etc.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#655

Post by stcredzero » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 6:34 PM UTC

DominikR wrote: post #596

huac wrote: post #109

I have a lot of thoughts, but here's one: Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. In general, making the case against someone else rather than the affirmative case for yourself doesn't work. It's reaction versus action. It's undoubtably true now that there was a very real populist anger towards the existing political order, and…

This is true, she didn't make a strong positive case for what her policies would look like. And if she did then she didn't spend her time effectively trying to convey this. (can't actually remember even a single policy of hers except for easier abortions and confrontation with Russia over Syria) But what I feel is problematic is that Trump was painted as some kind of Hitler, which is ludicrous if you spent a few hour…

He says things he shouldn't say, and some might say he's an a-hole

I voted for Obama in previous elections. But I also remember how he'd said denigrating things about people who "cling to guns or religion." I suspect people voted for Trump because they thought he didn't put on one face for one public and put on another one for a different public. (Which I doubt is the reality.)

Our media "elites" aren't elites anymore, and they're very out of touch with walk of life lower on the socioeconomic ladder. Denigration and painting with a broad brush are now accepted as the "reality" of politics, the news media, and social media. The "savvy" line to to accept and skirt such things. This is done by both the right and the left.

I believe we currently have 4 Hitlers according to the political establishment: Trump, Putin, Erdogan, Duterte

Fox News made various comparisons of Obama to Hitler.

In a book from the 90's, Eric Drexler proposed that a networked world would save society and make it easier to disseminate the truth. In 2016, one finds that instead the internet has given the loudest voices to the coarsest, most hateful, and stupidest among us. (And by this, I don't mean Trump, but rather online activists on both the right and left.)

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#656

Post by maxxxxx » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 6:35 PM UTC

huac wrote: post #109

I have a lot of thoughts, but here's one: Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. In general, making the case against someone else rather than the affirmative case for yourself doesn't work. It's reaction versus action. It's undoubtably true now that there was a very real populist anger towards the existing political order, and…

I have heard something on the radio that rigs true: The Democrats used to be party for blue collar workers but they have totally abandoned them. At least Trump said the right things.

I agree that Clinton never made a case for electing her other than being there for some reason. In general, the Republicans have the courage to take clear positions no matter right or wrong. Whereas the Democrats and especially Clinton are super wishy-washy.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#657

Post by CatMtKing » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 6:35 PM UTC

huac wrote: post #109

I have a lot of thoughts, but here's one: Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. In general, making the case against someone else rather than the affirmative case for yourself doesn't work. It's reaction versus action. It's undoubtably true now that there was a very real populist anger towards the existing political order, and…

I thought Michael Moore's reasons were pretty on point: http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/

Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin were indeed critical to the election, though it was by a hair that Trump won.

The liberal vote was not very enthusiastic, whereas Trump pulled in people that were die-hard fans.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#658

Post by pmuk » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 6:36 PM UTC

huac wrote: post #109

I have a lot of thoughts, but here's one: Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. In general, making the case against someone else rather than the affirmative case for yourself doesn't work. It's reaction versus action. It's undoubtably true now that there was a very real populist anger towards the existing political order, and…

This is very similar to what happened in the UK with Brexit; the remain campaign focused their arguments on the negatives / fear of leaving rather than the positives of being part of the EU.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#659

Post by readhn » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 6:37 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #578

daodedickinson wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>turnout "Obama got 65.9m votes in '12, Romney 60.9m. Clinton has 59.3m, Trump 59.1m. R vote didn't go up; Dem vote went down. 6.6m missing votes." https://twitter.com/MaxBoot/status/796378238306160641

I sat out as a Sanders supporter. I am sure I am not alone. EDIT: 1. I viewed Sanders support of Clinton as forced/coerced, as in "We let you compete in the Democratic primary, now you owe us". EDIT 2: By agreeing to support Clinton, she adopted some of his left leaning policies (in show only though, such as not supporting fracking or the TPP). 2. Of course I voted down ballot. EDIT 3: Getting really tired of these H…

A lot of my friends did the same.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#660

Post by pc86 » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 6:38 PM UTC

knz wrote: post #635

advantark2 wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they were racist, sexist, or Islamophobic This is a big issue here, and something that I don't feel that many democrats seem to understand. It wasn't a race issue, it was an immigration issue since many illegal immigrants have taken American jobs. It isn't sexist to acknowledge differences in the genders. It isn't islamophobic to see cultural issues with Islam that would cause integration issues, especially with a l…

> It wasn't a race issue, it was an immigration issue since many illegal immigrants have taken American jobs. I don't disagree with your point but how many "hard working" Americans want to work the fields and kitchens of the country for low wages? What impact is the removal of cheap labour going to have on the cost of food?

It doesn't matter how cheap the food is if you have to steal it because you don't have a job. And under-the-table wages aside, a white American dishwasher is not going to earn any more or less than a brown Mexican dishwasher.