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Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

fearlesssalarynegotiation.com

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Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#71

Post by jimbokun »

byoung2 wrote: post #50
_puk wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question, did that affect your working relationship with your manager / their manager, or did it work out well long term for everyone?

Honest question, did that affect your working relationship with your manager / their manager, or did it work out well long term for everyone? It worked out well for all parties, depending on how you look at it. Management was a little out of touch with market rate salaries, since they weren't tech guys (once the CEO referred to engineering as "black magic" since he didn't understand it). So while they were shocked at…

Thank you for including real numbers. Helps understand what's possible or realistic.

"During the time after I pulled my stunt I expanded on a pet project using sentiment analysis and that became the core of a new product that is now 40% of their revenue."

This is the most important number you give! Very important to understand the need to point to concrete revenue generated (or costs cut) when negotiating a raise. Otherwise, management will probably just call your bluff.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#72

Post by NKosmatos »

No offense, but this is applicable in fairy land or in an idealized and fair society/economy. Sure there are exceptions and I bet there are software developers who get what they deserve, but the majority is in no position to negotiate a 3-5% raise. I'm sure that for someone working in Silicon Valley it's true but not for many countries I can think off (including Greece where I work).

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#73

Post by user5994461 »

conanbatt wrote: post #9
redwards510 wrote: post #5

If only things were so easy. Our department gets allocated $XX,XXX each year for raises. My boss has to split that among eight people. If I were to get a 5% bump like OP recommends, other people would get nothing. Sounds like typical D-grade manager motivation. "Everyone work yourself to death and I might throw you a bone after one year!" I'd rather give up that 5% to have a sane work-life balance. It's common knowle…

That surely sounds like a negotiation tactic was played on you. "I cant give you a raise without taking it from someone else" or "It's out of my hands" are cut and dry sales tactics. I am a bit pejorative to that tactic because if answered correctly, it actually harms the salesman: proclaiming you cant give X salaries means that they dont respect market rates and thus an employee is incentivized to leave to someone t…

> Manager: "I cant give you a raise [...]"

The employee got an offer the next week somewhere else for +30%.

He gave his resignation letter to the manager right away. It didn't even occur to him to ask the company to make a counter offer (even though they may have).

[Just to say that sometimes, negotiation strategies can backfire, but managers don't seem to realize (or care about) that.]

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#74

Post by geofft »

ryandrake wrote: post #70
geofft wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the option of giving people nontrivial raises is unblocked, you only need to play it once. It is harder to play it this way, of course, but once you have an exception / your boss has more budget / etc., you can hopefully just do normal raise negotiation.

If "threatening to quit" is the process to get a raise at your company, what makes you think that doing so will suddenly stop that process?

I'm referring specifically to 'redwards510's department, which has a specific budget for raises (and to similar cases). I'm not referring to companies where in general one needs to threaten to quit to get a raise, of which there are a lot more. My guess is that if 'redwards510 threatens to quit, and that goes successfully, that will necessarily involve either raising the annual budget for raises (which, if I'm understanding correctly, is in dollars-per-year, not dollars), or fixing the process.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#75

Post by ryandrake »

vogt wrote: post #45
iamthepieman wrote: post #19

I've got raises as high as 206% by switching jobs. Most recent switch a little over 2 years ago resulted in a 20% raise which is much more typical. Never had more than a cost of living increase otherwise (2-3%), My strategy is to move when I stop learning. It maximizes both my enjoyment (learning challenges me and gives me motivation beyond a paycheck which is good for me and my employer.) and my potential earnings.

Since Oct 2012, I've gone from $32k, to $44k, to $75k, to $85k (and killer benefits) now. None of these were in SF, NYC, LA, Boston or Austin. All from switching jobs.

One thing not mentioned a lot in this discussion is that those triple- and double-digit increases tend to only happen early in one's career. Later in your career, it gets very difficult to find a different company that is willing to pay you even 10% more than you're making. You definitely will hit a ceiling at some point. My last job hop probably did not result in more than a 1% bump or so.

So, Junior Engineer going from $32K to $60K is totally believable. Senior Engineer going from $150K to $175K is going to be rarer. Super-Senior Engineer going from $190K to $225K seems unlikely (but probably does happen from time to time).

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#76

Post by redwards510 »

byoung2 wrote: post #30
AcerbicZero wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked at a number of places which had this basic policy. Upper management gives middle management a % of their budget for merit increases, and its up to the middle manager to break it up how they see fit. While you can certainly try to negotiate increases in compensation outside of this, I've never seen it happen successfully.

I've never seen it happen successfully. I've done it at least half a dozen times in my career. I was told "the maximum we can give is a $7k raise since there is a fixed pool for raises in the department." I said if I quit and you have to replace me, not only will you have to hire 2 devs to replace me (as I pulled dev and sysops duty) and pay them market salaries, you will have to pay a recruiter 20-30%. They still wo…

> They still wouldn't budge, so I got a counteroffer for $30k more than I was making,

Getting a counteroffer is not the same as what the OP is suggesting. Using another job offer as a leverage for a raise is not recommended by most experts. Just google "Should i accept a counteroffer?". Mainly because you create bad blood at your current employer and you have to be ready to follow through on your threat. Also, that employer you just pushed right to the edge of hiring you is going to be mad you were just using them. There are entire top 10 lists about why it is a bad idea!

I have pleaded the entire "it would cost you thousands to train a new guy, and you will have to pay him to start what i'm asking for right now!" line to bosses before. They are unmoved by financial arguments. It's as if management just decided to take a hard line against "persuasive" raises across the board, nevermind the damage it costs to lose talent.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#77

Post by ryandrake »

NKosmatos wrote: post #72

No offense, but this is applicable in fairy land or in an idealized and fair society/economy. Sure there are exceptions and I bet there are software developers who get what they deserve, but the majority is in no position to negotiate a 3-5% raise. I'm sure that for someone working in Silicon Valley it's true but not for many countries I can think off (including Greece where I work).

It's not necessarily true for Silicon Valley either. Despite the whole "shortage of engineers" fairy tale that just won't die, it's very much an employer's market, and employers are in the driver's seat when it comes to compensation.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#78

Post by duaneb »

redwards510 wrote: post #5

If only things were so easy. Our department gets allocated $XX,XXX each year for raises. My boss has to split that among eight people. If I were to get a 5% bump like OP recommends, other people would get nothing. Sounds like typical D-grade manager motivation. "Everyone work yourself to death and I might throw you a bone after one year!" I'd rather give up that 5% to have a sane work-life balance. It's common knowle…

Sounds like you need to collectively demand a raise for the department.

Our industry is long overdue for unions.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#79

Post by user5994461 »

iamthepieman wrote: post #19

I've got raises as high as 206% by switching jobs. Most recent switch a little over 2 years ago resulted in a 20% raise which is much more typical. Never had more than a cost of living increase otherwise (2-3%), My strategy is to move when I stop learning. It maximizes both my enjoyment (learning challenges me and gives me motivation beyond a paycheck which is good for me and my employer.) and my potential earnings.

> 206%

So it proves that it's possible to get decent people at 206% under the market :D

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#80

Post by ryandrake »

maxxxxx wrote: post #61
SteveNuts wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long did you stick around after you presented the other offer?

Quite a while. There were no negative consequences.

Wow, I can't imagine a place where playing the "I got an offer somewhere else" card wouldn't start a countdown clock on your career there.
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