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Canada’s federal court rules intelligence service bulk data collection illegal

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Re: Canada’s federal court rules intelligence service bulk data collection illegal

#41

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

anonbanker wrote: post #37
hbt wrote: post #18

You'd have to be a fool to trust lawmakers or law enforcement with your data and privacy by this point. They will always find some loophole in the language. Illegal to collect but not illegal to access what has been collected by allies (aka the Five Eyes). Just encrypt everything, use VPNs and whatever you push in plain/text may as well be public. Trust open technologies you understand, not politicians.

On top of encrypting everything/using VPNs, you'd have to be a fool to trust your data to a Five Eyes country in $current_year. Put that encrypted data/email on a server in Iceland or Seychelles, completely out of reach of the panopticon. You'd be almost as large a fool incorporating in a Five Eyes country for the same reasons. Bermuda and Nevis are beautiful countries for more than just the scenery. Take your assets…

And I'm supposed to believe Iceland, Seychelles, Bermuda, and Nevis aren't crawling with secret agents, double-agents, tripple-agents, octuple-agents, moles, and honeypot operators.

Come now, I've watched my fair share of Hollywood spy movies.

Re: Canada’s federal court rules intelligence service bulk data collection illegal

#42

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

cloudjacker wrote: post #40
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is this supposed to mean? The term "technology expert" also encompasses all the Black Hats Hackers and criminals - both opportunistic criminals and organised crime . The people who write ransomware are technology experts.

> The people who write ransomware are technology experts. protip: the white hat and black hat programmers are the same people.

I'm not sure what you mean why this. I'm just a dumb metal-fabricator and machine operator, so you'll have to excuse me if I don't understand the nuances of programming lingo.

Re: Canada’s federal court rules intelligence service bulk data collection illegal

#43

Post by cloudjacker »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #42
cloudjacker wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people who write ransomware are technology experts. protip: the white hat and black hat programmers are the same people.

I'm not sure what you mean why this. I'm just a dumb metal-fabricator and machine operator, so you'll have to excuse me if I don't understand the nuances of programming lingo.

Okay, the "criminal hackers writing harmful software" are the same people making a living writing benign software.

Re: Canada’s federal court rules intelligence service bulk data collection illegal

#44

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

cloudjacker wrote: post #43
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you mean why this. I'm just a dumb metal-fabricator and machine operator, so you'll have to excuse me if I don't understand the nuances of programming lingo.

Okay, the "criminal hackers writing harmful software" are the same people making a living writing benign software.

You haven't really written anything different here.

I was hoping you'd elaborate further on what you mean by this, rather than restating the same thing in only-slightly-different words.

I'll have a stab at it. Are you implying that the people who wrote the software for the internet banking website and phone app I use are the same ones who wrote CryptoLocker?

Surely there's some sort of gradient though, right? Like is Facebook malicious software (I tend to think so and I don't use it) or is it benign?

Re: Canada’s federal court rules intelligence service bulk data collection illegal

#45

Post by cloudjacker »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #44
cloudjacker wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, the "criminal hackers writing harmful software" are the same people making a living writing benign software.

You haven't really written anything different here. I was hoping you'd elaborate further on what you mean by this, rather than restating the same thing in only-slightly-different words. I'll have a stab at it. Are you implying that the people who wrote the software for the internet banking website and phone app I use are the same ones who wrote CryptoLocker? Surely there's some sort of gradient though, right? Like is…

Okay

> Are you implying that the people who wrote the software for the internet banking website and phone app I use are the same ones who wrote CryptoLocker?

Essentially I am saying that.

Re: Canada’s federal court rules intelligence service bulk data collection illegal

#46

Post by CamperBob2 »

chongli wrote: post #25
hbt wrote: post #18

You'd have to be a fool to trust lawmakers or law enforcement with your data and privacy by this point. They will always find some loophole in the language. Illegal to collect but not illegal to access what has been collected by allies (aka the Five Eyes). Just encrypt everything, use VPNs and whatever you push in plain/text may as well be public. Trust open technologies you understand, not politicians.

Trust open technologies you understand, not politicians. How many people really understand these technologies? For anyone who lacks either the time or the know-how to audit the source code: what do you suggest? If it's not "find the time and educate yourself" then does your statement not revert to: "Trust these technology experts instead of these politicians." ? To which I'd respond: Why? Why is a technology expert m…

To which I'd respond: Why? Why is a technology expert more trustworthy than a politician?

Because you can challenge them to defend their position, and evaluate their answers objectively.

Try that at a political rally, or even at an organized debate.

Re: Canada’s federal court rules intelligence service bulk data collection illegal

#47

Post by fatdog »

The thing nobody really talks about is that the agency in question is a "domestic" security intelligence agency. It has no foreign intelligence mandate (unless that's changed recently.)

Reporters call it "Canada's CIA," but it is mandated by the government in canada to spy only within the country. They are not a police force and cannot arrest their targets. Canada has a bunch of police intelligence agencies. It is hard to see what democratic function a domestic spy agency plays. Maybe there are good arguments for them.

Re: Canada’s federal court rules intelligence service bulk data collection illegal

#48

Post by labster »

kjnkjnsdf wrote: post #14
adekok wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. ... for me. Not for them, apparently. If the people enforcing the law aren't required to know or follow it, why am I required to?

Because you are part of the herd. Now shut up and go buy a mcgadget.

As long as it has a touchbar, sounds good!

Re: Canada’s federal court rules intelligence service bulk data collection illegal

#49

Post by RRRA »

sandworm101 wrote: post #19

For any non-Canadians reading this, understand that Canadians have a very different relationship with CSIS than say Americans do with the NSA or Brits with GCHQ. We have not seen the bulk use of this data for purposes of general law enforcement. It isn't being used to nab drug dealers or child pornographers. CSIS is rather oldschool in it's approach: intel assets are for intel purposes, not law enforcement. At least…

Except they are on the same campus as CSEC and this happened (among other things): http://www.cbc.ca/news2/pdf/airports_redacted.pdf

I'm pretty sure that CSEC dragnet-snooping on airports, including all Canadians, doesn't magically disappear from CSIS storage.

Either way, the government is spying on its own citizens and trust is broken.

Re: Canada’s federal court rules intelligence service bulk data collection illegal

#50

Post by sandworm101 »

RRRA wrote: post #49
sandworm101 wrote: post #19

For any non-Canadians reading this, understand that Canadians have a very different relationship with CSIS than say Americans do with the NSA or Brits with GCHQ. We have not seen the bulk use of this data for purposes of general law enforcement. It isn't being used to nab drug dealers or child pornographers. CSIS is rather oldschool in it's approach: intel assets are for intel purposes, not law enforcement. At least…

Except they are on the same campus as CSEC and this happened (among other things): http://www.cbc.ca/news2/pdf/airports_redacted.pdf I'm pretty sure that CSEC dragnet-snooping on airports, including all Canadians, doesn't magically disappear from CSIS storage. Either way, the government is spying on its own citizens and trust is broken.

Nobody thinks they aren't doing the spying. Canadians just trust that the spying is limited to the expected terrorism/cold war espionage/boarder security stuff, that they aren't letting the RCMP trawl the data to discover who is talking to whom. As recent news tells us, the RCMP have to resort to their own means for that.
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