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Don’t Get Attached, It’s Just Luck. My Interviewing Advice and Tips

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Re: Don’t Get Attached, It’s Just Luck. My Interviewing Advice and Tips

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those take home tasks are rarely 1 hour deals, so it's not a question of spend an hour at home or take a day off for an on-site. It's usually spend X hours at home and take a day off for an on-site. Do you really think that "crazy unicode test case" person really only spent an hour on your test?

> Those take home tasks are rarely 1 hour deals This seems to be the common complaint, but really this is discussing the idea -vs- the implementation. Some examples here of checking specific things that were not in scope, or tasks that take whole day are really disappointing. And I agree there are loads of really crappy tests out there. But yes, you can create a test that's easily doable in 1h. As for the crazy edge…

I will concede the point that if it literally takes an hour, and it means I don't have to write code in the interview with someone watching my every move at all, then, yes, I would gladly do such a test. I'm still skeptical that a test that requires writing production-ready code and tests would really take only 1h.

Re: Don’t Get Attached, It’s Just Luck. My Interviewing Advice and Tips

#52

I've been coding since I was 14 (I'm 27 now) and went to uni; I usually never have a problem with technical interviews, but I applied for Facebook just to try out their interview process (because one of my academic-minded software engineering friends told me that he didn't pass the third interview - So I was intrigued). I thought that their questions were mostly good but the interviewer makes you code live in realtim…

I freeze under pressure, too, but I work in an open office and have no issue with that. It's not reasonable to literally watch over someone's shoulder while they're working. That's just interview hazing. They do it because the people who hired them did it, on down to the first engineering employee hired by FB who probably had it done to him/her because the people interviewing had no idea how to interview any better.

BTW, what's a "fringe list"? Googling that term shows me results pertaining to the TV show Fringe (which is great, but I'm sure not what you're getting at).

Re: Don’t Get Attached, It’s Just Luck. My Interviewing Advice and Tips

#53

I've been coding since I was 14 (I'm 27 now) and went to uni; I usually never have a problem with technical interviews, but I applied for Facebook just to try out their interview process (because one of my academic-minded software engineering friends told me that he didn't pass the third interview - So I was intrigued). I thought that their questions were mostly good but the interviewer makes you code live in realtim…

Actually to me this just sounds like a typical bad tech interview. The idea that you'll be live coding on the job with someone looking over your shoulder is kind of silly no matter where you work, even in an open workspace. Also, you'll probably use your own tools not their IDE, and if you did use their environment, you'd have ample time to pick it up. And so on and so forth.

I've frozen in interviews before under similar circumstances. The only blame I place on myself is not being a better interviewee... it really is a skill unto itself quite apart from the job and apart from programming.

Re: Don’t Get Attached, It’s Just Luck. My Interviewing Advice and Tips

#54
post #26

this is all good info. especially the take homes. when i interviewed this time around for a new job, the most frustrating part were the take homes. lots of companies expect you to do a sample project that only grants you an audience to a technical phone screen. like, what? didn't i just pass your technical test? if i still have to show my technical prowess doesn't that mean you don't trust my resume, or trust that i…

I disagree about the take homes. But this may primarily be because I've been hiring with a heavily weighted take-home for the last six months. Here's my reasoning: 1. I don't want to work for a company that uses CVs as a major part of its job screen, since they are nearly useless from an informational point of view. Steps that improve the quality of candidates also improve the expected quality of your future colleagu…

i don't think pure cvs are the answer. i don't think a take-home is either. especially since a lot of companies expect you to put a lot of sweat into these take-homes.

if your take-home is a "half-day" which means... 12 hours? half a work-day? what? that does not sound appealing to me. unless you are actually building something unique, offering more stock, or more money, or a better work environment i am not sure how you can explain it's worth it to someone to go through your process and essentially wasting an afternoon to a week of their life doing the take-home. _especially_ when most companies will reject you for a lot of silly reasons.

in a perfect world your scenario would be "fine" and all your points your company may actually do. but across the swath of companies there is no guarantee of this.

for example you cite #4 as an point for doing take-homes, except i seriously doubt many companies mask/hide who the person coding it is. they usually just hand it to one of their engineers and go, "evaluate this" and now you're at the mercy of what kind of engineering person he/she is and whether they're currently too busy to give you a fair shake or any other myriad reasons.

you can barely get companies in silicon valley to admit there is bias let alone set up some blindness against it. unless they were able to submit the initial job application anonymously, how do you know your process isn't bias at that point from your HR person? maybe you do account for that, but how many companies realistically do that?

and again without knowing your company or your process, _every_ company with a take home says, "take your time", "we're not in a rush" etc but never actually tell you that they want just and if you do that's enough. people literally have no idea how you're going to judge their take home. maybe the question is unclear, maybe your view of a "good enough" ui to them is a ui that takes longer than the time you've alloted them. maybe you don't like it when they write their javascript without semi-colons but you don't bother to tell either the interviewee or the grader any of that. then there is also the problem that even with "correct" code a lot of engineers who review take-home tests just _love_ to nitpick to disqualify possible candidates. and if you _do_ have a process in place to guard against that, you would literally be the first company i've heard who goes that far in their interviews.

i don't doubt the way you're handling it is getting the results you want and is the best way to hire. but i doubt that's how other companies are handling it. now you expect people looking for jobs to be able to discern between you and the other group? you want me to apply and assume good faith that your process will only take half a day and is "fair"?

edit: i tried editing this to make it not sound very antagonistic, but it is late here in sf so it may come off like that so sorry if it does. i don't disagree that take-homes work for you. i just don't think most companies in the bay area have thought it out very much other than, "use take-home test in interviews"

Re: Don’t Get Attached, It’s Just Luck. My Interviewing Advice and Tips

#55
post #26

this is all good info. especially the take homes. when i interviewed this time around for a new job, the most frustrating part were the take homes. lots of companies expect you to do a sample project that only grants you an audience to a technical phone screen. like, what? didn't i just pass your technical test? if i still have to show my technical prowess doesn't that mean you don't trust my resume, or trust that i…

> the job position was to be a front-end developer. You lucked out then, I think. If they were looking for a front end developer and asking questions about semaphores, something is definitely wrong.

the position was for a front-end role, but the company itself is more "low level" than that.

it was just one of those situations where the vpe is a very smart person, but has no clue about the front-end, and apparently this was a pet question of the vpe. i don't think i "lucked out" since the people i would have actually had day-to-day interactions with were fine people. but yeah that is definitely a blind-spot for them.

Re: Don’t Get Attached, It’s Just Luck. My Interviewing Advice and Tips

#56

I've been coding since I was 14 (I'm 27 now) and went to uni; I usually never have a problem with technical interviews, but I applied for Facebook just to try out their interview process (because one of my academic-minded software engineering friends told me that he didn't pass the third interview - So I was intrigued). I thought that their questions were mostly good but the interviewer makes you code live in realtim…

I freeze under pressure, too, but I work in an open office and have no issue with that. It's not reasonable to literally watch over someone's shoulder while they're working. That's just interview hazing. They do it because the people who hired them did it, on down to the first engineering employee hired by FB who probably had it done to him/her because the people interviewing had no idea how to interview any better.…

I guess it's not broadly used terminology but it was common when I was at uni: http://mnemstudio.org/path-finding-a-star.htm - It's basically a list which you use to hold nodes which you haven't visited yet and you expand them in-place and pop them off as you visit them.

Re: Don’t Get Attached, It’s Just Luck. My Interviewing Advice and Tips

#57
post #53

I've been coding since I was 14 (I'm 27 now) and went to uni; I usually never have a problem with technical interviews, but I applied for Facebook just to try out their interview process (because one of my academic-minded software engineering friends told me that he didn't pass the third interview - So I was intrigued). I thought that their questions were mostly good but the interviewer makes you code live in realtim…

Actually to me this just sounds like a typical bad tech interview. The idea that you'll be live coding on the job with someone looking over your shoulder is kind of silly no matter where you work, even in an open workspace. Also, you'll probably use your own tools not their IDE, and if you did use their environment, you'd have ample time to pick it up. And so on and so forth. I've frozen in interviews before under si…

I actually did a very, very similar interview before without any issues. The difference was that the previous time, the interviewer gave me a paper with lots of questions and left the room.

Re: Don’t Get Attached, It’s Just Luck. My Interviewing Advice and Tips

#58

I've been coding since I was 14 (I'm 27 now) and went to uni; I usually never have a problem with technical interviews, but I applied for Facebook just to try out their interview process (because one of my academic-minded software engineering friends told me that he didn't pass the third interview - So I was intrigued). I thought that their questions were mostly good but the interviewer makes you code live in realtim…

Is there no trial period in the US?

Every person we hire here (Switzerland) gets interviewed but because it is almost impossible to know if someone is going to work out there is a trial period of three months by law. Usually with a termination time of one week. After the trial you will usually need to give at least three month notice. You can get the most brilliant Coder but if he/she doesn't work with your existing team for what ever reason, he/she isn't the right fit for you.

You can only find these things out after they start working for you.

Re: Don’t Get Attached, It’s Just Luck. My Interviewing Advice and Tips

#59

I've been coding since I was 14 (I'm 27 now) and went to uni; I usually never have a problem with technical interviews, but I applied for Facebook just to try out their interview process (because one of my academic-minded software engineering friends told me that he didn't pass the third interview - So I was intrigued). I thought that their questions were mostly good but the interviewer makes you code live in realtim…

Is there no trial period in the US? Every person we hire here (Switzerland) gets interviewed but because it is almost impossible to know if someone is going to work out there is a trial period of three months by law. Usually with a termination time of one week. After the trial you will usually need to give at least three month notice. You can get the most brilliant Coder but if he/she doesn't work with your existing…

Unless there's an employment contract or collective bargaining agreement stating otherwise, people can be fired in the US at any time for almost any reason. That "almost" hides a little nuance, such as the reason can't be related to race, gender, or certain other "protected" reasons, but, "any reason" is a pretty good approximation. No notice period is required. If you're lucky, you get to walk out by yourself carrying a box of your stuff. Frequently people are escorted out.

Re: Don’t Get Attached, It’s Just Luck. My Interviewing Advice and Tips

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I freeze under pressure, too, but I work in an open office and have no issue with that. It's not reasonable to literally watch over someone's shoulder while they're working. That's just interview hazing. They do it because the people who hired them did it, on down to the first engineering employee hired by FB who probably had it done to him/her because the people interviewing had no idea how to interview any better.…

I guess it's not broadly used terminology but it was common when I was at uni: http://mnemstudio.org/path-finding-a-star.htm - It's basically a list which you use to hold nodes which you haven't visited yet and you expand them in-place and pop them off as you visit them.

Oh, right, like the "seen but not visited" set you maintain when doing BFS.
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