Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid • Hacker News Board

Re: Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid

#61

Post by walshemj » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 12:16 AM UTC

dmuneka wrote: post #24

mobiuscog wrote: post #11

Effectively he's bringing back apprenticeships the way they should be. It's far more useful than the current University arrangement, where 'everyone' gets to pay money to drink for 3 years (whilst studying) and then either drop back into the market looking for useful work, or go on to spend even more time making Academia seem worthwhile. We used to be world leaders in engineering and production in the UK - now we jus…

This is similar to the School Leaver programmes run by large accounting firms in the UK as well. You get paid a decent amount to get accredited whilst working for the firm. The programmes could take 6 years, but at the end of it, you would be a much more valuable employee than the person who drank away 3 years of their life! Plus you'd be a qualified accountant! The downside is when all your mates are out having fun,…

But will these employees face a glass ceiling in there later carrears.

Re: Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid

#62

Post by dbbk » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 12:34 AM UTC

dmuneka wrote: post #24

mobiuscog wrote: post #11

Effectively he's bringing back apprenticeships the way they should be. It's far more useful than the current University arrangement, where 'everyone' gets to pay money to drink for 3 years (whilst studying) and then either drop back into the market looking for useful work, or go on to spend even more time making Academia seem worthwhile. We used to be world leaders in engineering and production in the UK - now we jus…

This is similar to the School Leaver programmes run by large accounting firms in the UK as well. You get paid a decent amount to get accredited whilst working for the firm. The programmes could take 6 years, but at the end of it, you would be a much more valuable employee than the person who drank away 3 years of their life! Plus you'd be a qualified accountant! The downside is when all your mates are out having fun,…

The downside isn't just missing out on the 'fun', but also all the soft skills you get. I feel like academia is only 50% of the university story. The rest is expanding your interests, learning independence, making friends with a more diverse set of people than you'd previously been exposed to. To me it makes you a more well-rounded person (and subsequently, employment candidate) than someone who just stuck their head in books.

Re: Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid

#63

Post by fdgdasfadsf » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 12:45 AM UTC

sgt101 wrote: post #48

fdgdasfadsf wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a pet theory based on the car industry that the really toxic thing is British labour relations I don't think that many people will disagree with you on this theory.

I will. Every large company in the UK has a significant union. Not every large company has failed. Some company failures have been exacerbated by unions, british leyland being one example. The really toxic thing is financial short termism. It used to be results in a year, which was very bad. Now they want results in under a quarter which is to value generation as acid to chalk.

Just to clarify my post was saying that the relation between union and and management is the problem - not the existence of the union. I ascribe this as much (if not more) to management than to the union.

Re: Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid

#64

Post by crdoconnor » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 1:05 AM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #21

mobiuscog wrote: post #11

Effectively he's bringing back apprenticeships the way they should be. It's far more useful than the current University arrangement, where 'everyone' gets to pay money to drink for 3 years (whilst studying) and then either drop back into the market looking for useful work, or go on to spend even more time making Academia seem worthwhile. We used to be world leaders in engineering and production in the UK - now we jus…

I think that's overstating it, there's a lot of engineering in the UK. It just has a very low media profile, because it either has a foreign name on the product (Nissan!) or doesn't sell to consumers. A surprisingly large amount of it is in really unglamorous buildings in industrial estates outside cities other than London. Since the media have largely stopped bothering to leave the M25, it's invisible. (I have a pet…

The strikes tended to come after the looting and the collapse of the companies due to mismanagement.

The systemic reason for this was the high value of the pound though. This dose of Dutch disease was avoided in Germany that has managed to repress the value of its currency in a variety of different ways.

Re: Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid

#65

Post by crdoconnor » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 1:15 AM UTC

Maken wrote: post #19

mobiuscog wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the reason we don't have the people is because we rely on 'Europe' to provide everything.

And importing talent is bad because...

For people who voted out? Because it puts downward pressure on wages. As the head of the in campaign pointed out in a rare moment of lucidity:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/1218...

Re: Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid

#66

Post by rahimnathwani » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 6:06 AM UTC

jackweirdy wrote: post #38

fdgdasfadsf wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK has two problems: 1. We need lots of skilled people. 2. We have lots of people lacking skills. Importing talent solves problem (1) (and grows the economy and is generally and genuinely a good thing). But problem (2) remains. Why not try to solve both at once?

We also have lots of skilled people missing work. All three problems are related, none are the root cause

Skilled at what?

Re: Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid

#67

Post by rahimnathwani » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 6:10 AM UTC

pvaldes wrote: post #54

ropiku wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply because you have a CS degree doesn't mean you're qualified enough to be hired. Companies don't just hire based on a degree, they want demonstrable skills. I've seen 3rd year students unable to fix a basic java compilation error in their own program. No reasonable CS graduate I know is unemployed.

Demonstrable skills? Of course, here you are the results of my 100 exams, that I passed sucessfully. In an officially certified document, easy to authenticate. Its called curriculum, and is comfortably standardized for all students so you can find the best easily. Otherwise you would need to compare among random arbitrary sets of skills, different for each one of your candidates and this would be for companies basica…

A CS degree isn't 'comfortably standardised'. Each university has its own curriculum, its own exams, and its own standards.

If I could prove to you that I was awarded a CS degree from a UK university, would that be sufficient for you to agree to employ me?

Re: Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid

#68

Post by akhatri_aus » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 7:08 AM UTC

tankenmate wrote: post #23

mobiuscog wrote: post #11

Effectively he's bringing back apprenticeships the way they should be. It's far more useful than the current University arrangement, where 'everyone' gets to pay money to drink for 3 years (whilst studying) and then either drop back into the market looking for useful work, or go on to spend even more time making Academia seem worthwhile. We used to be world leaders in engineering and production in the UK - now we jus…

In fact what he is setting up is very much similar to the German Mittelstand apprenticeship model; however to get similar results requires managers to change their ways, most apprenticeship trained staff in Mittelstand companies have a turnover of 2.7% (rather than up to 30% in entry level employees in US / UK).[0] This means that managers need to realise that you need good, technically solid training, and interestin…

Unfortunately today people are fickle and will change jobs if they're just paid more.

There's loyalty and cash. In Germany they still have control on their wages.

Re: Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid

#69

Post by pvaldes » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 11:27 AM UTC

rahimnathwani wrote: post #67

pvaldes wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demonstrable skills? Of course, here you are the results of my 100 exams, that I passed sucessfully. In an officially certified document, easy to authenticate. Its called curriculum, and is comfortably standardized for all students so you can find the best easily. Otherwise you would need to compare among random arbitrary sets of skills, different for each one of your candidates and this would be for companies basica…

A CS degree isn't 'comfortably standardised'. Each university has its own curriculum, its own exams, and its own standards. If I could prove to you that I was awarded a CS degree from a UK university, would that be sufficient for you to agree to employ me?

If your scores were high, probably yes.

Recruitment should be put in the right context. The best recruiter have an evening, or a few hours to figure out if you are a good fit or if you have any skills. If you have a bad day, your recruiter don't liked your face or he/she wants to remain the big fish in a small pond; you fall under the radar.

Your teachers instead had four years for "recruit you". They have see you performing in solitary and in group; know if you have any real skills or not or if you have problems with the other studens. They understand you much better that any recruiter; is their job.

The job of a recruiter is having the position filled at the lowest price possible. They need the psychological tricks to make the process random again and put pressure on the candidate. To be able to cheat the tests or to seduce your recruiter is not a skill that the company needs. Is just smoke. Unsusprisingly a lot of those swans turn into ugly ducklings just after being hired.

Re: Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid

#70

Post by lol768 » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 12:05 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #13

gadders wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You normally do a Bachelor of Engineering - B.Eng.

I think if you apply to any university they'll strongly recommend that you should be doing the MEng instead. The BEng isn't enough to even get chartered is it? So you'd need to do another degree anyway.

You don't need the Masters degree to be a chartered engineer as far as I know.

If you graduate and gain enough experience on the job (probably more cost effective than being at uni for another year) to be considered to have an equivalent standard of education I believe you can become a CEng with a presentation.