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Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

nytimes.com

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Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#231

Post by brokenmachine »

x1798DE wrote: post #221
jwr wrote: post #189

Safe or not for smokers, non-smokers should certainly not have to inhale the same substances that smokers do. I find it alarming that e-cigarette marketing managed to convince smokers that what gets exhaled is just "water vapor", and thus they can now smoke anywhere they want.

I don't understand. In my experience these vaporizers don't have any sort of smoke that lingers around and there is no unpleasant sensation associated with breathing around ecigarette users like there is with tobacco. Even if there is more than water vapor in there, I feel like it's very unlikely that I'd be getting any sort of significant dose from their exhalations, so why should I care if they smoke inside?

Do you have any proof it is safe, or are we just basing our decisions on feelings?

I'm personally not comfortable inhaling your random unknown vaporizer gases. Many chemicals are dangerous at levels you are not able to smell, or indeed have no odor.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#232

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS »

rfrank wrote: post #229
oxide wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a cheap bastard, so I just buy Chinese liquid. 50ml for 11 bucks. If you're buying domestic juice you pay a premium for nothing special, from what I can tell. Also, the chances of it being made in a proper factory are basically nil. It's often someone else's DIY garage juice at a 10000% markup.

Yeah, I'd agree on the markup part for sure. From my experience the quality difference between "premium" and cheap juice is small but noticeable. These days I only buy juicse with flavors that are tough to work with, coffee and chocolate in particular. I haven't kept up with the new FDA guidelines since starting DIY about a year ago, but from what I remember a lot of the little garage brands are going to be in troubl…

If they had established flavors before the guidelines were put into place, they will be fine for now - just no new flavors. Unfortunately the hamstringing of innovation will eventually lead to their demise.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#233

Post by rfrank »

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #232
rfrank wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'd agree on the markup part for sure. From my experience the quality difference between "premium" and cheap juice is small but noticeable. These days I only buy juicse with flavors that are tough to work with, coffee and chocolate in particular. I haven't kept up with the new FDA guidelines since starting DIY about a year ago, but from what I remember a lot of the little garage brands are going to be in troubl…

If they had established flavors before the guidelines were put into place, they will be fine for now - just no new flavors. Unfortunately the hamstringing of innovation will eventually lead to their demise.

For sure, I take it they're able to start making new flavors again upon meeting the guidelines? Seems like it'll just force people to outsource manufacturing to somewhere like Molecule or just fold, which is a shame. It's been a lot of fun watching the industry explode over the last few years.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#234

Post by neotek »

frakr wrote: post #195
neotek wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teens already experiment with smoking actual cigarettes, all vaping does is provide them with an alternative to experiment with that is far safer and less addicting than tobacco.

It also provides a cotton candy flavored gateway into an addictive habit.

To quote the Smoking Still Kills report, which was backed by over 100 health organisations in the UK including the Royal College of Paediatricians, the British Heart Foundation, Cancer Research UK, and plenty more:

>This has raised concerns that the use of electronic cigarettes could lead to the ‘renormalisation’ of smoking and provide a gateway to smoking for young people. Yet so far there is little evidence that this is happening. The use of electronic cigarettes by people who have never smoked has been, and remains, negligible.

>If electronic cigarettes are a gateway, they currently appear to be a gateway out of smoking.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#235

Post by neotek »

brokenmachine wrote: post #223
sophacles wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you also favor coffee demonization commercials being started? Anti-cola campaigns? etc?

Which addictive toxic drug are you suggesting coffee is a candy-flavored gateway to?

Which toxic drug are you suggesting is present in eliquid? You can't be talking about nicotine, since that's no more toxic than caffeine and is not carcinogenic.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#236

Post by neotek »

ythl wrote: post #141
neotek wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teens already experiment with smoking actual cigarettes, all vaping does is provide them with an alternative to experiment with that is far safer and less addicting than tobacco.

That's not a good enough reason to not have anti-vape commercials. Just because it's "less bad" than analog cigarettes doesn't mean we shouldn't speak out about their negative effects.

Nor does it mean we should arbitrarily ban or restrict them to satisfy the whims of people who haven't looked at the evidence.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#237

Post by brokenmachine »

moron4hire wrote: post #75

I think that the two properties--that it is safer than cigarettes and that it's a menace--are not a contradiction. It's certainly not as bad to be around a vaper than a smoker, but that doesn't mean it's not bad to be around a vaper. It's relatively better, absolutely still on the "gross, don't do that around me" end of the spectrum. I try pretty hard to not subject people to my disgusting habits. How is it that peop…

But it isn't nearly as stinky! And I have a feeling that it's much less noxious! And the vapour hasn't even been proven yet to kill everyone around! It's totally amazing and we should all be encouraging everyone to vape!

If you can't tell, I'm agreeing with you. I pray something is done about vaping before the horse has bolted like it did with cigarettes. Just because it could be less dangerous doesn't mean it should be encouraged or indeed allowed at all. Every vaping liquid being sold should have to be tested thoroughly for safety IMO, and really I'm amazed that it doesn't have to be.

Vaping is too new for long-term studies to have been performed, and also with the zillions of different kinds of vaping juices, each one with a different formulation, how can we know that they are all safe?

It's an absolute joke how much secondhand smoke a non-smoker is forced to inhale nowadays with what we know about how dangerous it is, and I live in Australia, with relatively progressive smoking laws. I don't want to be subjected to secondhand smoke in public places, and I don't want to be subjected to secondhand vapor either, regardless of whether or not the inhaler considers it "safe enough".

Actually it is illegal here to sell nicotene-containing liquid. I do think that nicotene-containing liquid is being sold however, as I do see people vaping around the place, and just quietly, they don't seem like the kind of people who could get their stuff together enough to make their own ecig juice.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#238

Post by brokenmachine »

totalZero wrote: post #165
timwaagh wrote: post #162

the malboro man does not smoke e cigarettes. they're not cool. they're a medical tool for addicts. being an addict is not cool. as smoking is just silly herd behaviour of putting burning stinking sticks into your mouth and somehow being part of something cool, it's no surprise e cigarrettes don't take off. only a big shift in marketing of these things can change that. if e cigarettes where seen as the Apple of smokin…

It's 2016, cigarettes aren't cool anymore. I used to date a girl who used an ecig and would exhale a cloud of vanilla cookie aroma everywhere we went. I thought that was pretty cool to be honest.

It's 2016, being addicted to something that kills you (regardless of flavor), isn't cool anymore.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#239

Post by brokenmachine »

neotek wrote: post #235
brokenmachine wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which addictive toxic drug are you suggesting coffee is a candy-flavored gateway to?

Which toxic drug are you suggesting is present in eliquid? You can't be talking about nicotine, since that's no more toxic than caffeine and is not carcinogenic.

frakr was implying that the ecigs are a gateway drug to cigarettes.

Hardcore coffee addicts don't usually end up smoking coffee with 4000 other random addictive chemicals mixed in.

And wrt your question, who knows what other chemicals are in ecig juice, as the ingredients seem to be completely unregulated.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#240

Post by neotek »

brokenmachine wrote: post #239
neotek wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which toxic drug are you suggesting is present in eliquid? You can't be talking about nicotine, since that's no more toxic than caffeine and is not carcinogenic.

frakr was implying that the ecigs are a gateway drug to cigarettes. Hardcore coffee addicts don't usually end up smoking coffee with 4000 other random addictive chemicals mixed in. And wrt your question, who knows what other chemicals are in ecig juice, as the ingredients seem to be completely unregulated.

Apologies for misunderstanding your comment, however I would add that vapers don't usually end up smoking, the flow is in the other direction. I'd recommend reading the Smoking Still Kills report for more information:

http://ash.org.uk/information-and-resources/reports-submissi...

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