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Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

nytimes.com

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Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#191

Post by vertex-four »

dghughes wrote: post #171

I know many people say short term use of e-cigarettes have helped them that's great but I have to wonder about those who have no plans to stop. There seems to be a vocal battle between e-cig users and scientists each having their own claims about diacetyl. It's the famous fake butter compound for microwave popcorn that caused lung cancer in the workers who handled it. My dad has IPF and COPD two lung diseases from ye…

Note that diacetyl has been removed from almost all flavour compounds used in the creation of ejuice, aside from some custard ones, and even then there's variations without diacetyl.

In any case, I doubt there's a very significant amount of people who've started ecigs who wouldn't have started cigarettes, and cigarettes are well known to cause lung damage.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#192

Post by abecedarius »

CoryG89 wrote: post #161
badsock wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, IMO, is a good reason to legalize and regulate all drugs, including hard drugs like heroin and meth. The user having the tools to regulate the potency and amount of the drug in order to use this taper-down strategy is not available via the black market.

I think along the same lines as you, but I'm not so sure about users being able to successfully self-taper with legalization. Lots of people with oxycodone or similar perscriptions find it almost impossible to meaningfully self taper. Not to say that there aren't some people with that level of self control, but not all. I don't think it would be much different with heroin or meth.

I get the impression it varies with different drugs: with cigarettes the addiction is powerfully reinforced by associating taste/smell with the nicotine kick, and vaping can particularly help by letting you remove that factor.

(Couldn't say from my own experience, though, unless you count my addiction to chocolate.)

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#193

Post by greglindahl »

the_watcher wrote: post #186
redblacktree wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gasoline taxes aren't "vice taxes." They're usage taxes that pay for the maintenance of roads and bridges.

If the gas tax was pitched and passed as a usage tax, rather than as an incentive for purchasing more efficient vehicles, I'd have a different perspective on moving to a mileage tax. However, in California, at least some gas taxes were pitched and passed as vice taxes, and the mileage tax here was explicitly pitched to replace the revenue generated by it (by at least one CA representative). Thankfully, thus far we've…

Because diesel is commonly used for non-vehicle purposes, diesel fuel is frequently marked with color to indicate if it was taxed at the vehicle rate or not:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_fuel#Taxation

However, if you're talking about a carbon tax instead of a roads maintenance tax, burning diesel or gas is the same, whether it's in a car or not.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#194

Post by vertex-four »

rawfan wrote: post #94
yuubi wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the one person I know who had tried various ways to quit over the years got a vape set, tapered down gradually to no cigarettes over about 6 weeks (I think on day 1 she only had half a pack instead of her usual ≥ 1 pack habit), and hasn't had an actual cigarette in over 2 years. Different people seem to respond better to different approaches.

I know the initial success is great. The question is, will she be able to stay off cigarettes for good (and ecigs, too). Most ecig-users I know went back to cigarettes without hesitation when they forgot to bring extra liquid to the party and they got drunk. Even after years of abstinence from real cigarettes. Everything anyone here will say is anecdotal of course.

Occasional relapse isn't actually a terrible thing. One cigarette every half a year isn't going to kill you, probably, or at least it's not going to kill you faster than all the other unhealthy things you do.

If it's easy to switch back after you've had your relapse, the only real issue is with the all-or-none definition of quitting.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#195

Post by frakr »

neotek wrote: post #134
ythl wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we have any statistics on percentage of vape users quitting analog smoking vs. recreational/teen experimental usage? If there are strong recreational vape trends in youth I can see why anti-vape ads might be a thing.

Teens already experiment with smoking actual cigarettes, all vaping does is provide them with an alternative to experiment with that is far safer and less addicting than tobacco.

It also provides a cotton candy flavored gateway into an addictive habit.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#196

Post by MaxfordAndSons »

elorant wrote: post #27
thirdsun wrote: post #14

For anyone looking to quit smoking I can't recommend e-cigarettes enough. As a very passionate former smoker I got off the habit pretty much accidentally and without even trying in a timeframe of about half a year. And it actually started with the intend to find a cheaper alternative to expensive cigarettes without any desire to quit. The key is to steadily reduce the amount of nicotine in the liquid you're using. On…

As a former smoker I believe that the best way to quit smoking is cold turkey. Sure, the withdrawal phase is a hell but in my case that helped me realize just how addictive that shit was. Before I’d never imagine that quitting would cause me depression or sleeping problems. All that, and a lot more, helped me understand how much my body was reliant on cigarettes. From my experience most smokers don’t realize how addi…

I tried a number of cessation methods, including vapes, and was only eventually successful going cold turkey. But I think there's a pretty complex nexus of factors that determine what works best for an individual - your behavioral tendencies towards addictions in general, your neurochemical susceptibility to nicotine dependency in particular, your overall health and ability to weather more severe physical withdrawal, your use of other recreational drugs or medicines, and the presence of other smokers in your everyday life all come to mind. So, while I felt similarly about my own experience quitting, I disagree with the statement that it's the normative "best way", or that there is any single best way to quit.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#197

Post by CoryG89 »

abecedarius wrote: post #192
CoryG89 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think along the same lines as you, but I'm not so sure about users being able to successfully self-taper with legalization. Lots of people with oxycodone or similar perscriptions find it almost impossible to meaningfully self taper. Not to say that there aren't some people with that level of self control, but not all. I don't think it would be much different with heroin or meth.

I get the impression it varies with different drugs: with cigarettes the addiction is powerfully reinforced by associating taste/smell with the nicotine kick, and vaping can particularly help by letting you remove that factor. (Couldn't say from my own experience, though, unless you count my addiction to chocolate.)

Yeah it's definitely not the same with different drugs. The urges triggered by smell of cigarette smoke, I personally feel is more a mental thing, ie. the power of suggestion. It's separate from the physical dependence.

Vaping may remove the smell triggers, but having smoked for a long time, and having vaped a fair amount as well, I suspect that while vaping may be much healthier, it could end up being more addictive due to the way it tends to be used along with differences in the way it's inhaled.

When light cigarettes were first introduced, they also thought they would be healthier, but many people actually tended to pull harder on a light cigarette than the regular cigarettes, resulting in smoke being pulled more deeply into the lungs actually doing more damage.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#198

Post by gozur88 »

awinder wrote: post #34
tankenmate wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet the numbers say that people who go through phased withdrawal using e-cigarettes are more likely to give up...

If I remember correctly, cold turkey has worse rates for initial quitting but the lowest rates of people returning to smoking for those who "made it"

Cold turkey is how my dad did it after 40 years of 2 packs a day, unfiltered. He went through a couple weeks of hell, but as far as I know he hasn't smoked in 21 years.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#199

Post by SpliffnCola »

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #177
rfrank wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

/r/electronic_cigarette is the primary ecig subreddit. /r/diy_ejuice is a good resource for people interested in making their own eliquid. can't access the spreadsheet i made at the moment to check, but i pay somewhere in the order of a dollar worth of ingredients for 30ml of juice.

The mark up for juice at most vape stores is obscene, yet still manages to be cheaper than regular cigarettes. $15 for 30 mL at my local store, that lasts me on average 15 days. So it's still roughly half the price for a half pack a day smoker and 1/4 of the price for a pack a day smoker (assuming a very generous $5 a pack). If you mix your own juice you're approaching savings that are better on an order of magnitude…

I highly recommend Vapejoose, they have 120ml bottles for $23.99, sometimes $20, and they offer free shipping over $50.

Three 120ml bottles last me close to an entire month. Local stores around here are also a rip-off (near Austin, Texas).

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#200

Post by tjohns »

I find it really interesting that the bulk of the comments here are about folks using them as a smoking cessation aid.

In my case, every friend I know who's started using e-cigarettes took them up without having an existing tobacco habit. Some of them add nicotine to the vape juice, some don't.

I don't know how common this is, but it's certainly given vaping a negative impression for me. At the very least, it seems like an unnecessary risk given how little public health data there is.

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