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Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

nytimes.com

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Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#21

Post by zamalek »

jrockway wrote: post #2

The reality is that tobacco taxes fund a lot of the government, and there is no replacement for that income source if people stop smoking cigarettes. Thus the tobacco companies are happy to lobby against e-cigarettes to protect their revenue stream and the government is happy to support them because it's their revenue stream too. It's unfortunate, because it's largely a tax on the poor. The rich can afford prescripti…

> Thus the tobacco companies are happy to lobby against e-cigarettes

I saw this on Reddit a while back, someone pointed out that "we get it, you vape" was probably introduced by tobacco companies to create a stigma around the practice.

I'm a quitting smoker, on vape (RBA) and it bloody works. If only there were such great tools for quitting other addictions.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#22

Post by jrs95 »

choko wrote: post #10
adrianN wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't people who can't afford cigarettes stop? Is nicotine gum that much more expensive than cigarettes?

Because it's an addiction and by design, very difficult to quit. As for the gum, I can tell you that it's a rather poor replacement for cigarettes. It doesn't really eliminate (and barely curbs) the need for a cigarette.

I was actually quite successful with the gum, but the only thing that really made it difficult for me to quit was the withdrawal symptoms. So I suppose it's effectiveness depends on how someone is addicted to smoking.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#23

Post by taneq »

Do e-cigarettes really have a reputation as a 'menace'? I've never heard anyone express any significant concern about them on an individual level (certainly nowhere near as much as about traditional cigarettes), and yet I've read countless news articles decrying them.

It seems odd.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#24

Post by linkregister »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #9
jrockway wrote: post #2

The reality is that tobacco taxes fund a lot of the government, and there is no replacement for that income source if people stop smoking cigarettes. Thus the tobacco companies are happy to lobby against e-cigarettes to protect their revenue stream and the government is happy to support them because it's their revenue stream too. It's unfortunate, because it's largely a tax on the poor. The rich can afford prescripti…

do you have access to some detailed data about state/federal income sources? cursory search says excises are around 3% of total taxation income, while on state level goes up to 14% (but still includes all sources, not just tobacco)

Indeed, the parent poster appears to be weaving a "just so" story with the moral being that government (somehow a monolith and not a composition of a representative legislature) seeks to get more revenue. This ignores the fact that federal tax receipts have been hovering around 20% of GDP for the last 40 years [1].

However, each state is different; some states' legislatures intentionally tax tobacco products as a deterrent to smoking, with demonstrable public health benefits [2]. Cigarette taxes are negatively correlated with smoking rates. I concede that the federal tobacco tax rate is too low to do anything substantial, for raising revenue or as a deterrent. It should either be raised, or scrapped and left to the states.

1. http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/federal-receipt-an...

2. http://www.cbpp.org/research/higher-tobacco-taxes-can-improv...

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#25

Post by tomtoise »

stinos wrote: post #19
thirdsun wrote: post #14

For anyone looking to quit smoking I can't recommend e-cigarettes enough. As a very passionate former smoker I got off the habit pretty much accidentally and without even trying in a timeframe of about half a year. And it actually started with the intend to find a cheaper alternative to expensive cigarettes without any desire to quit. The key is to steadily reduce the amount of nicotine in the liquid you're using. On…

While I also highly recommend e-cigarettes, your story is of course the ideal picture of how it should go. But it might not go that easy for everyone: even with the use of it I'm having a hard time to quit the actual cigarretes completely and it's not due to the nicotine (in fact I do not know what exactly still makes me crave for those hand-rolled cigarettes). Also nicotine can be a pleasant drug to use. Which is li…

I found it harder to quit as a rollie-smoker myself. My theory is the ritual of rolling up a quick cigarette is just as compelling as the actual smoke. I'd find myself rolling at my desk when in a stressful situation a fair bit.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#26

Post by linkregister »

taneq wrote: post #23

Do e-cigarettes really have a reputation as a 'menace'? I've never heard anyone express any significant concern about them on an individual level (certainly nowhere near as much as about traditional cigarettes), and yet I've read countless news articles decrying them. It seems odd.

Only in U.S. cities will I see scare-tactic advertisements against e-cigarettes. What's strange to me is that the Truth campaign is sponsoring some of them. The Truth campaign is a result of a liability suit of several states vs the cigarette companies, and it is intended to pay for anti-smoking advertisements and smoking cessation programs. It appears to be a blatant violation of the terms of the judgement.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#27

Post by elorant »

thirdsun wrote: post #14

For anyone looking to quit smoking I can't recommend e-cigarettes enough. As a very passionate former smoker I got off the habit pretty much accidentally and without even trying in a timeframe of about half a year. And it actually started with the intend to find a cheaper alternative to expensive cigarettes without any desire to quit. The key is to steadily reduce the amount of nicotine in the liquid you're using. On…

As a former smoker I believe that the best way to quit smoking is cold turkey. Sure, the withdrawal phase is a hell but in my case that helped me realize just how addictive that shit was. Before I’d never imagine that quitting would cause me depression or sleeping problems. All that, and a lot more, helped me understand how much my body was reliant on cigarettes. From my experience most smokers don’t realize how addictive and dependent they are on their habit. If they were perhaps they’d think twice before lighting another one.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#28

Post by inimino »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #16
syshum wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I realize this often isn't the case, but the pursuit of taxing specific behaviors is supposed to only be used to fund things caused by that behavior: That is only for the press release.. It is never actually that way. Almost all taxation applied to a general fund, meaning all taxes are simply put in a large pool, then various programs are funded from that pool. There are almost never any actual legal rules that req…

I have no problem with taxes on harmful products like tobacco and alcohol since they are a harm to society and a burden on society.

How about sugar?

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#29

Post by nv-vn »

taneq wrote: post #23

Do e-cigarettes really have a reputation as a 'menace'? I've never heard anyone express any significant concern about them on an individual level (certainly nowhere near as much as about traditional cigarettes), and yet I've read countless news articles decrying them. It seems odd.

Well for one thing, in my state you have to be 18+ to purchase them, which makes it just as convenient to smoke actual cigarettes for kids.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#30

Post by tankenmate »

elorant wrote: post #27
thirdsun wrote: post #14

For anyone looking to quit smoking I can't recommend e-cigarettes enough. As a very passionate former smoker I got off the habit pretty much accidentally and without even trying in a timeframe of about half a year. And it actually started with the intend to find a cheaper alternative to expensive cigarettes without any desire to quit. The key is to steadily reduce the amount of nicotine in the liquid you're using. On…

As a former smoker I believe that the best way to quit smoking is cold turkey. Sure, the withdrawal phase is a hell but in my case that helped me realize just how addictive that shit was. Before I’d never imagine that quitting would cause me depression or sleeping problems. All that, and a lot more, helped me understand how much my body was reliant on cigarettes. From my experience most smokers don’t realize how addi…

And yet the numbers say that people who go through phased withdrawal using e-cigarettes are more likely to give up...
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