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Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

nytimes.com

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Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#161

Post by CoryG89 »

badsock wrote: post #129
thirdsun wrote: post #14

For anyone looking to quit smoking I can't recommend e-cigarettes enough. As a very passionate former smoker I got off the habit pretty much accidentally and without even trying in a timeframe of about half a year. And it actually started with the intend to find a cheaper alternative to expensive cigarettes without any desire to quit. The key is to steadily reduce the amount of nicotine in the liquid you're using. On…

This, IMO, is a good reason to legalize and regulate all drugs, including hard drugs like heroin and meth. The user having the tools to regulate the potency and amount of the drug in order to use this taper-down strategy is not available via the black market.

I think along the same lines as you, but I'm not so sure about users being able to successfully self-taper with legalization. Lots of people with oxycodone or similar perscriptions find it almost impossible to meaningfully self taper. Not to say that there aren't some people with that level of self control, but not all. I don't think it would be much different with heroin or meth.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#162

Post by timwaagh »

the malboro man does not smoke e cigarettes. they're not cool. they're a medical tool for addicts. being an addict is not cool. as smoking is just silly herd behaviour of putting burning stinking sticks into your mouth and somehow being part of something cool, it's no surprise e cigarrettes don't take off.

only a big shift in marketing of these things can change that. if e cigarettes where seen as the Apple of smoking surely they'd sell better.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#163

Post by mcguire »

unethical_ban wrote: post #117
mcguire wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, it's a big thick cloud of vapor coming from someone's mouth.

What about a thick cloud of... carbon dioxide and water vapor, from the people standing around you?

...which is difficult to perceive unless they are close enough to be obviously breathing on you. Or have bad breath. Neither of which is appealing.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#164

Post by Symbiote »

cr0sh wrote: post #148
yuubi wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice, there's often no useful difference between a thin cloud of vile-smelling smoke and a thick cloud of fruity-smelling vape: many people would prefer to avoid both. (Also, the vape cloud leaves much more residue than smoke did, just much less foul). Best policy seems to be to use the things only where actual smoking is allowed to try to avoid annoying bystanders.

I wonder if people would still be annoyed if it didn't produce a cloud? To me, it seems like many people have this weird "ick" about natural biological functions. Some are understandable - like body waste, and sneezing/coughing that could spread contagions. Regular smoking I can understand from the standpoint that it smells bad. But vape clouds typically smell good. But they are visible. So people are reminded of "ic…

Vape clouds smell awful. Like all the artificial flavourings I dislike, applied the way a 13 year old boy applies deodourant.

If it's rude to spray perfume or eat smelly food, then it's also rude to vape.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#165

Post by totalZero »

timwaagh wrote: post #162

the malboro man does not smoke e cigarettes. they're not cool. they're a medical tool for addicts. being an addict is not cool. as smoking is just silly herd behaviour of putting burning stinking sticks into your mouth and somehow being part of something cool, it's no surprise e cigarrettes don't take off. only a big shift in marketing of these things can change that. if e cigarettes where seen as the Apple of smokin…

It's 2016, cigarettes aren't cool anymore.

I used to date a girl who used an ecig and would exhale a cloud of vanilla cookie aroma everywhere we went. I thought that was pretty cool to be honest.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#166

Post by a2m »

alexdumitru wrote: post #116
lightedman wrote: post #97

As long as people keep playing the sub-ohm game, thus keeping the majority of heat dissipation in the battery (I've seen 5 milli-Ohm coils, imagine where the heat's going when an 18650 has a typical resistance of 100 milli-ohms fresh) then yes, these things will be a menace. Just the other day a sub-ohmer at the mental health facility I was re-wiring had his battery explode on him. POPFIZZLE! It was just sitting on t…

You scared me a bit, as I'm using 0.25 ohm. Can you explain what's the problem or provide some resources to read? I was pretty scared of ecigs before, seeing so many exploding.

you're good if you're using a regulated mod, which almost everyone is

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#167

Post by sithadmin »

kstrauser wrote: post #140
mcguire wrote: post #95

" Americans tend to value abstinence above all else, an all-or-nothing approach that British advocates see as rooted in the United States’ Puritan culture, said Deborah Arnott, the chief executive of Action on Smoking and Health. " This is true. You can see the same thing during the (alcohol) prohibition era: because ethyl alcohol is necessary for other uses, it was mandated to be "denatured" by adding chemicals that…

Americans tend to value abstinence above all else, an all-or-nothing approach that British advocates see as rooted in the United States’ Puritan culture I think that's hugely simplified. There are plenty of drugs which are exceedingly difficult to use recreationally: - Crack - Meth - Nicotine - Heroin People who use those at all are very likely to use them a whole hell of a lot, and they have terrible health effects.…

>they have terrible health effects

Nicotine alone doesn't have 'terrible health effects' for those that are otherwise generally healthy. Yes, it is addictive and can exacerbate existing conditions (e.g. high blood pressure), but nicotine consumed through methods like lozenges, patches and gum poses negligible health risks.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#168

Post by kstrauser »

mcguire wrote: post #159
kstrauser wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans tend to value abstinence above all else, an all-or-nothing approach that British advocates see as rooted in the United States’ Puritan culture I think that's hugely simplified. There are plenty of drugs which are exceedingly difficult to use recreationally: - Crack - Meth - Nicotine - Heroin People who use those at all are very likely to use them a whole hell of a lot, and they have terrible health effects.…

" There are plenty of drugs which are exceedingly difficult to use recreationally: " Certainly. And the proper response is to discourage their use. But how do you treat those who do use them? As a health problem or as a moral failure? Thanks for the HHS link!

> Certainly. And the proper response is to discourage their use.

Totally agree, but that's an entirely different conversation.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#170

Post by jdietrich »

NinjaViking wrote: post #152
tome wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Went from 18mg to 0 in the last 6 months of me using. Continued using 0 nic for 2 months. Now I am 8 months clean of all nicotine products and 6 months clean of ecigs in general. Congratulations! But being a non-smoker, I don't understand. Can you explain why you couldn't have cut down on nicotine by just smoking fewer cigarettes per day?

Because cigarettes deliver nicotine very, very fast, giving an instant and pleasant rush. After an hour or so the nicotine level in your blood has fallen quite a lot and you'll be craving another one. E-cig nicotine delivery happens slower and you avoid both the highs and the crashing lows. That makes it a lot easier to cut down to insignificant amounts of nicotine over a few months.

Tobacco smoke also contains monoamine oxidase inhibiting compounds, which are believed to drastically increase the addictive potential of nicotine. Rats are largely indifferent to nicotine alone, but will compulsively self-administer nicotine in combination with an MAOI.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0024320506... http://jneurosci.org/content/25/38/8593.long http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0091305703...

Cigarettes do give a more immediate and intense nicotine 'hit'. Ammonia compounds are added to cigarette tobacco, which increase the proportion of freebase nicotine to nicotine salts. Cigarettes are, in a very literal sense, the crack cocaine of nicotine delivery.

http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_623.pdf

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