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The Mirai Botnet Is Proof the Security Industry Is Broken

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Re: The Mirai Botnet Is Proof the Security Industry Is Broken

#121
I work in the infosec field and I think it is unfair to blame the whole industry. I think the whole technology field is to blame here (although I really don't like to play the blame game). By the way, I have been around the security industry for around 10 years, and the same exact conversation has been going on. 10 years ago it was the Web, then around 7 years ago it was Mobile, now it is IOT, several years from now, we are going to have the same conversation regarding a different technology unless we do something regarding the root causes.

The root causes are the following: 1- Security more often than not is an afterthought. When you are trying to go to market, under tight deadlines, burning the night oil, nobody has time, energy or money to think about security. 2- The lack of security education by most of the stakeholders (upper management, product managers, engineers, etc) does not help and keep security a taboo, in most organization, nobody has the title of making the software secure. So it falls into nobody's lap 3- While, I have all the respect to the profession of honest sales, some salesmen ruined it for all of us, feasting on the lack of education mentioned above. Trying to sell tools/services as the silver bullet to the security problem, an idea that is very well received by someone who does not understand the problem and really looking for a silver bullet 4- At the end of the day, the real issue is that security is a cost center, there is no ROI for the business for doing security other than avoiding problems that "could" happen in the future.

That being said, there are three classes for clients I have seen doing security: 1- Heavy losses: for banks for example, the risk of losing money is quiet real and tangible. Besides they (at least in the U.S) under heavy regulations to do so. But their real motivation is risk mitigation. 2- Regulations (worst reason to do security): such as the PCI industry, they have to do security checks to avoid fines. This category usually try to do the minimum to get by. 3- Proactiveness: hats off to this category, as they don't really have to do it other than they think that this is something that must be done.

Solutions: 1- More education 2- More education 3- More education 4- Implement more security controls natively into frameworks (output encoding, entity frameworks, etc) and browsers (such as CSP policy, etc) 5- More fines for companies that don't really take the minimum amount of steps to ensure data confidentiality and integrity.

Re: The Mirai Botnet Is Proof the Security Industry Is Broken

#122
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worst of all, they think people who haven't learned about security deserve what happens to them...

For the sake of argument, why don't they deserve what happens to them? Most people don't understand how their car works. But if you own a car and you neglect to change the oil for 50k miles, or you put diesel into your tank and ruin your car, we don't blame the automotive industry for not informing you on proper maintenance. Just like with computers, the information is out there, and it's not the job of the automaker…

However, if it is a very wide spread problem then they will eventually install a light on your dash to notify you to change your oil. My wife's car currently does this. Since this is the first car she's ever owned, it's good because I don't think she would have known. We also have check engine lights and indicators for when a turn signal light bulb stops working. New cars even keep track of things like tire pressure.

I don't expect the mechanic to take advantage of me and instead offer me fair service at a fair price. Luckily enough people have a natural interest in it that the competition keeps prices down.

My argument is in the similar vein of those who aren't physically fit to win a fist fight. Doesn't mean they deserve to pushed around, robbed or beaten just because I'm stronger and a better fighter.

No matter the analogy, if someone doesn't know better it doesn't automatically mean they deserve it. Peoples lives are busy, complicated and not everyone starts on the same ground or with the same capabilities.

Re: The Mirai Botnet Is Proof the Security Industry Is Broken

#123
post #17
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worst of all, they think people who haven't learned about security deserve what happens to them...

But when you tell someone "That's not secure, you can easily get hacked. You need to [insert good security practices here]", what response do you get ? In my experience, most answer along the lines of "So what ? What could they get ? I have nothing important." or "Why would anyone ever hack me ?" or "But I have an antivirus, doesn't that make me safe ?". And then spend the next 15 minutes explaining to them how thing…

I think it's just a general misunderstanding of what privacy means. I've explained several times and even convinced a few people that just because they think they have nothing to hide, they generally do have something they don't want someone to know about or see. At best they will just revert back to the "I have nothing to hide" mentality after a week. I think people outside of tech just don't see how damaging it can be when you loose privacy.

Re: The Mirai Botnet Is Proof the Security Industry Is Broken

#124
post #49

I wish more people would talk about the economics of why netsec is such a garbage industry. It's a few honest people screaming to be heard above the din of snake-oil salesmen, but there's an economic reason that goes beyond "dumb users, incompetent programmers and CTOs who just look and speeds and feeds". The problem is there's weak correlation, or at least very difficult-to-see correlation, between the amount of eff…

That's a great point regarding the economics of why IoT manufacturers don't invest all that much on security. Here's another one. It's an externality. Botnet attacks don't harm the IoT manufacturers. They don't even harm the IoT products or their users. They harm completely innocent bystanders like DNS/github. What possible incentive do IoT manufacturers have to invest money on initiatives that bring no benefits to t…

Couldn't all those affected by the IoT botnet sue the company fabricating the IoT products?

Re: The Mirai Botnet Is Proof the Security Industry Is Broken

#125
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many pennies would've been needed to insert a simple page forcing you to change user/password combo and to choose a reasonably strong password after first boot ? In the case of Mirai it's not even a cost issue, just lacking good practices.

"How many pennies would've been needed to insert a simple page forcing you to change user/password combo and to choose a reasonably strong password after first boot ?" These are written by outsourced developers who don't know anything about security. They wouldn't even think to develop something as simple as that. You are obviously unaware of how this works, companies would have to hire consultants/penetration tester…

Ok, I am aware of how it works, but I'm not talking pentests or hardening. I'm talking simple, cheap design choices in this case, that could've eliminated the whole Mirai debauchery.

In your app you already have a setup wizard, right ? Add one more page to the end "Hey, we're almost done! We just need to make sure your device is secure. Please choose a username and (strong) password." Edit: Because if you have a login, you already have the components in place, you are not developing a new feature.

This one simple, design choice would have cost very little, both in terms of development time and increase in support costs, because Support is a cost center that scales with your user base and your knowledge base. Obviously not pennies, but still small costs.

There is the classical point of diminishing returns from security investments, problem is for most IoT products, we are significantly left, towards zero investments and, at this point, small investments and a few smart design choices would yield significant returns in security.

And with developers that's exactly what I don't get. How has it not become internalized that allowing users to run the default user/pass combo is very poor idea ? I'm not asking for much, I don't expect them to know a lot about security, but not even adhering to some basic good practices of security is killing me.

Re: The Mirai Botnet Is Proof the Security Industry Is Broken

#126

I wish more people would talk about the economics of why netsec is such a garbage industry. It's a few honest people screaming to be heard above the din of snake-oil salesmen, but there's an economic reason that goes beyond "dumb users, incompetent programmers and CTOs who just look and speeds and feeds". The problem is there's weak correlation, or at least very difficult-to-see correlation, between the amount of eff…

> It's a few honest people screaming to be heard above the din of snake-oil salesmen... I think it more likely that it's a few honest, knowledgeable people screaming to be heard above many honest, well-intentioned, but misguided people screaming to be heard above the din of snake oil salesmen. It's much easier to believe the wrong thing and sell it yourself than it is to be a confidence man. And on the same note, it'…

> And on the same note, it's much easier to crucify a malicious hacker than it is to ruin the life of a guy who supports his wife and kids who just happened to make the economic call that running everything as root was okay.

Makes me wonder who makes the snake oil for the salesmen. I'm trying to say this is a plausible caricature that distracts us from a more complex (and way more interesting) reality.

Re: The Mirai Botnet Is Proof the Security Industry Is Broken

#127

I wish more people would talk about the economics of why netsec is such a garbage industry. It's a few honest people screaming to be heard above the din of snake-oil salesmen, but there's an economic reason that goes beyond "dumb users, incompetent programmers and CTOs who just look and speeds and feeds". The problem is there's weak correlation, or at least very difficult-to-see correlation, between the amount of eff…

Sounds like a solution would be to rule out the luck factor and institute dedicated hackers, who aren't ultimately getting paid by the manufacturers.

The first thing that comes to mind is a governmental agency, but then that opens the government/industry watchdog collusion ball of worms.

Re: The Mirai Botnet Is Proof the Security Industry Is Broken

#128
If someone reputable was testing all these devices for such basic flaws and published the results, then IT managers could use that to back their buying decisions. That would actually cause vendors to listen. I don't think it is impossible to do, or even monetize such service.

Re: The Mirai Botnet Is Proof the Security Industry Is Broken

#129

It's not the failure of the security industry, it's the success of market forces over the security industry. Normal folk want to consume new gadgets because that's the culture we have. So it's a race to put new gadgets with new features in front of people. Sure, as a customer I could insist on my manufacturer having taken security seriously and having their products thoroughly tested and reviewed and hardened and pat…

> Sure, as a customer I could insist on my manufacturer having taken security seriously and having their products thoroughly tested and reviewed and hardened and patchable and all that good stuff

How exactly would you insist on that? Ask them? Aren't they going to tell you, "Yes, it's very secure, no worries"?

Re: The Mirai Botnet Is Proof the Security Industry Is Broken

#130

I work in the infosec field and I think it is unfair to blame the whole industry. I think the whole technology field is to blame here (although I really don't like to play the blame game). By the way, I have been around the security industry for around 10 years, and the same exact conversation has been going on. 10 years ago it was the Web, then around 7 years ago it was Mobile, now it is IOT, several years from now,…

I'm fond of the idea of fines. Having seen what audits mean, I trust them about as far as I can throw a full-size African elephant bull.
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