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This year we can end the death penalty in California

paulgraham.com

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Re: This year we can end the death penalty in California

#31

Post by brador »

rndmize wrote: post #25

I don't find the fact that some people are found innocent to be a convincing reason to be against the death penalty. The replacement, which is life in prison, strikes me as even less appealing. How is sending someone to jail and leaving them there for 20 years only to figure out that people fucked up and the guy wasn't actually guilty - "Sorry chap, but it's only a third of your life we've ripped away from you, you'v…

What if it was you? What if you were framed for a crime? Would you prefer the death penalty then or only if it's someone else's head on the line?

State murder is an ugly business that has no part in any modern society.

Re: This year we can end the death penalty in California

#33

Post by mdemare »

afarrell wrote: post #2

Note that this would only end it for crimes that fall under the state's jurisdiction. For things like transporting people across state lines to kill them or using a weapon of mass destruction in a manner detrimental to interstate commerce, the death penalty could still apply on a federal level.

So if somebody sets off a nuclear bomb, the feds are fine with it as long as it does not hurt interstate commerce?

I know, constitution and all. But still, that sounds a bit mercantile.

Re: This year we can end the death penalty in California

#34

Post by abfan1127 »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #16
justinzollars wrote: post #10

The death penalty never made sense to me. We teach our kids its wrong to kill by killing? I'd rather the person spend their life in jail to think about what they have done.

I oppose the death penalty but by this logic we shouldn't have prison at all because it's wrong to kidnap and hold someone in 6'x10' room against their will.

prison is a place for people who can't be trusted in the general public. We add layers of protections in case we are wrong (juries, appeals). There is no CTRL-Z for the death penalty.

Re: This year we can end the death penalty in California

#35

Post by lukewink »

rndmize wrote: post #25

I don't find the fact that some people are found innocent to be a convincing reason to be against the death penalty. The replacement, which is life in prison, strikes me as even less appealing. How is sending someone to jail and leaving them there for 20 years only to figure out that people fucked up and the guy wasn't actually guilty - "Sorry chap, but it's only a third of your life we've ripped away from you, you'v…

Most people do not feel the same way. Also, the death penalty does not allow an inmate to choose death over life in prison; this decision is forced upon them.

Re: This year we can end the death penalty in California

#36

Post by MichaelBurge »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #8
murtnowski wrote: post #7

California already removed the death penalty in 1972 then later reinstated it. This resulted in killers like Charles Mason being relieved from execution and denying many victim's family member from obtaining a measure of justice they wanted. Since being reinstated only 13 people have been executed. And none in the past 10 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Californ...

I think one of the best takes on this issue was a quote from a death penalty critic in the documentary film "Deadline". He said, "We all agree that we should have a system that kills John Wayne Gacy but there is no way to create a system that kills only John Wayne Gacy." Meaning that, there are certain cases where we are 100% certain of a persons guilt and can mostly agree that that person should die but how do we en…

I suppose one starting point would be to allow executions in the case where the defendant confesses under oath in a courtroom.

Though it might be considered poor policy, since it would discourage people from accepting a plea bargain or confessing.

Re: This year we can end the death penalty in California

#37

Post by Jtsummers »

eikenberry wrote: post #24

Is it better to kill an innocent or let them spend their life in jail? Given the states of our jails, I'm not sure but I think I'd prefer death.

> Is it better to kill an innocent or let them spend their life in jail? Given the states of our jails, I'm not sure but I think I'd prefer death.

We can't undo killing them. We can't give them back their years, either. But depriving someone of their life entirely is worse than depriving them of a portion of their life. At least in the latter case they have a chance to go out and do something, reconnect, however painfully, with loved ones, or make new connections.

Re: This year we can end the death penalty in California

#38

Post by detaro »

mdemare wrote: post #33
afarrell wrote: post #2

Note that this would only end it for crimes that fall under the state's jurisdiction. For things like transporting people across state lines to kill them or using a weapon of mass destruction in a manner detrimental to interstate commerce, the death penalty could still apply on a federal level.

So if somebody sets off a nuclear bomb, the feds are fine with it as long as it does not hurt interstate commerce? I know, constitution and all. But still, that sounds a bit mercantile.

Conventional explosives count as "weapons of mass destruction" as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapon_of_mass_destruction#Cri... . And I guess the "interstate commerce" example comes from criminal code about terrorism: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332a

Re: This year we can end the death penalty in California

#39

Post by Alex3917 »

jacquesm wrote: post #21

The single best reason why the death penalty should be abolished is because it does not have an 'undo' button. It's bad enough if people get jailed for a long time when they are innocent, it is much worse when they're murdered by the state for crimes they did not commit. Other important work done: http://www.innocenceproject.org/ edit: sad to see this thread flagged off the homepage.

> The single best reason why the death penalty should be abolished is because it does not have an 'undo' button.

Neither does killing people with drones...

Re: This year we can end the death penalty in California

#40

Post by abfan1127 »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #28

Back in the day, there was a serial killer named Ted Bundy. He killed a number of women, was imprisoned, escaped (twice) and killed at least three more people. That kind of incident makes the problem much more complicated. The typical argument against the death penalty is that sometimes innocent people are executed. And it's true, and it's horrible. But if you don't execute them, then the alternative is that they sho…

4% of innocent put to death vs. Ted's 3? Don't forget the pressure on prosecutors to arrest a serial killer, the chances of pinning it on someone (say a relative) is nonzero. But the chance of undoing a wrongful death penalty is exactly zero.
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